What i'm getting at is, is there anyone whos made gains from just training whatever the hell way they wanted rather than follow the herd?
I tend to listen to whatever the experts say, then stick stuff in my own way, which supposedly is uncool and a recipe for disaster.... But I don't care. Because for the most part, nearly every routine made by someone else has something that I absolutly HATE. Like one legged squats or reverse crunches or something else uninteresting.
I never feel any of those exercises working. I never feel the mind muscle connection, I feel unmotivated to bother even doing them. So I stick to the basics and the movements I like.
I know a few people who do the same thing, and make good gains from doing so. And i also know a few idiots who do the same thing but they do it stupidly and end up overtrained with no improvements.
Sometimes it seems like the majority of people on this site follow well known training programmes and I never hear of anyone just doing their own thing. As if no one ever tries anything they made up themselves.
I know people in real life who do their own thing, and some of them have made some serious gains. Not newby gains either, and i wouldnt call them genetically blessed, just normal. If i were to ask them if they followed such and such's programme, they would probably say "wha?"
I just hate doing some brand name routine that alot of people swear by, but it is filled with exercises that i just cannot do without stopping half way through thinking "this is fucking ghey"
i hope theres other people who think the same way, Otherwise i'l look like a newb with no clue.
and yes, i have tryed routines before without changing anything. I found that i made far more strength gains and size gains from doing my own thing though.
I'm just speaking about myself here, and what seems to work for me.
i'm not saying my way is best. Im saying my way is full of gym movements that i prefer, which is better than doing something that i will only do half assed.
Sometimes my programmes are pretty stupid looking, but as long as these pretty stupid programmes deliver the goods, then i dont see the need in doing the smart stuff.
maybe thats why im still 130 pounds with 12 inch arms
Join date: Jul 2004
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 3411
I hear you. I have followed several programs on this site, but I also tend to tweak them a bit to meet my training schedule, recovery ability and life in general. But coming up with something on your own? Totally go for it if it works for you. You can have all the smartest people in the world writing brilliant, erudite training programs, but if they do not work for you (for whatever reason), well... then why bother?
I would add one piece of caution on throwing away exercises you do not like doing after trying them only once or twice. I think that can be an easy way of missing out on gains simply because something is different. I did not like one-legged squats at first, but after a few weeks of doing them out of necessity from a back injury, I think they are invaluable (at least from an athletic standpoint).
Hey, if nothing else, at least you have a mesmerizing avatar. That thing always cracks me up.
Maybe that's why I have the emotional maturity of a 13 year old.
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 6010
Me. I use the info, but I have never used a structured routine from here or any place else. I use the info and theories and work them into something that works for me.
Join date: Oct 2003
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 1805
I've done both, and achieved good results with both. There are numerous ways to skin a cat, and I think that taking the principles upon which a routine is based, and finding ways to apply it to your own training so to get results is the mark of a good trainee.
Join date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 1667
Why, if you are trying to bodybuild, would you ever focus your training around other peoples programs?
The name of the game is learning how your own body works, so it seems obvious to me that the way you train should be constantly progressing in that direction, not just trying random routines that may or may not be personalized to you at all.
If you do a program from this site you will most likely find that some stuff worked and some stuff didn't work. Now what are the chances that you can go from that and find a program that has all the stuff that is working for you, and then changed the stuff that didn't work? maybe, maybe not, but rather than wasting the time looking for that you could be testing things out deductively in your own way.
I mean how many options are there, really, that a person needs to go thru?
Once you figure out your personal recovery rates, what general set and/or rep ranges make each major muscle group grow the fastest, and what exercises work the best for you, you are basically good to go for a while granted you've also gotten your personal dietary needs in order. organize a program around that.
Of course if you try the latest T-Nation program whenever it comes out, every other week or something... you are likely to never find that balance and never learn what your body really responds to.
That's my 2 cents, apologies for the long post.
To answer the original question: I followed TBT when I first got started and it didn't work for me. That is it. haha
Join date: May 2007
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 455
Contributors to this site have shared with us some great routines based on their knowledge and experience. I have read a lot of these routines and learned from them, but never specifically followed a program down to the bone.
Ideally, each trainee should be doing a specialized program based on his own individual needs. Of course, the newest trainees end up thinking their "needs" are chest, shoulders, bis/tris every time they go into the gym. This is where the problem lies.
I think the key to creating your own successful routine is through the following two means.
1. Knowledge from others. The first step is finding a reliable source (such as the big mofo in the gym...who are generally nice guys I might add...or credible magazines like T-Nation).
Focus on understanding the reasons behind what you're doing. For example, WHY are you doing dip shrugs and scap push ups? If you understand their benefits for shoulder health, it will help you understand where and when they fit into your training.
T-Nation has a lot of articles about the fundamental principles of the human body and how it relates to weight training. Study up.
Additionally, reading the sites programs gives you an idea of what other people are doing for their goals. Obviously you should be able to recognize the difference between a powerlifting routine and bodybuilding split.
2. Experience. Like everything in life, nothing is more important than gaining the experience of knowing how your body reacts to training stimuli. Again, this is very individualized, but the importance cannot be overstated.
I saw a youtube speech by a guy from EliteFTS talking about how he lifted without knowing anything for years...but he kept at it. When his body started hurting, he'd change what he was doing.
And Now he's a beast. While I don't think this is the best way of going about getting yoked (especially since there is so much great information out there), it still proves experience is key to success.
Join date: Aug 2005
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 2637
pat wrote:
Me. I use the info, but I have never used a structured routine from here or any place else. I use the info and theories and work them into something that works for me.
Same here.
Granted, this 'do it myself' approach led to some pretty retarded training programs in my early years of training, when I had little knowledge to base them upon. However, I now know what works best for me, and no program that someone else designs at this point is likely to give ME better results.
Join date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 3242
Dirty Tiger wrote:
I'm with you DickBag. I always steal what I like and discard what I don't.
Diddo. I think most people do. Some just aren't smart about it.
Big difference between swapping DE Bench for Repetition and swapping DE Bench for 45 minutes of Curls.
Join date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 412
ANY of the routines in here will result in size and strength if followed properly and if youre eating to gain scale weight. The only advantage of picking a cookie cutter routine is it is "usually" well designed taking recovery of major muscle groups, balancing work around key joints and work for smaller groups into account.
Whether it is a routine by Chad or a routine by CT or whoever. How long and how well it will work will obviously depend on the trainee, but a simple mantra that can help anyone put on a good solid base of size and strength (before refinement) is "train to gain strength, eat to get heavier".
Too many worry about finding the "perfect" routine for their needs. Any routine works as long as you keep up the overload and eat to gain weight. That said, if your routine is not giving you results any more, change it. Its your body, your experiment. IF you';re not gaining muscle you only have yourself to blame.
BTW anyone remember XCelticX? We should get his opinion on here as well.
Join date: Jun 2005
Location: California, USA
Posts: 5090
Bag of dick:
It's not the program, it's the lifter.
Quite honestly, grinding heavy reps until it hurts is all it requires. I am a proponent of LESS IS MORE. Simple programs with high intensity will always work better than Any "expert" designed stuff.....for me at least.
Join date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 2642
This seems like a double-edged sword topic. If I admit that I've never used any of the routines here, am I going to appear on the Tribunal list?
Now that I got that out of the way, I agree with Anthro - I've gained a TON of knowlege here, and adapted it to the space and db's and plates that I've got at home.
I've created my own routines based on what I've read. I find I prefer complex lifts that I can do in a short period of time. I prefer different kinds of DLs, jump squats, other squats, different pushups, different pulling chest excercises, different ways to use my body weight, etc. When I go to the gym, I try other things that I read about here. I don't want to buy a big blue ball, but I read about ball-flys here, and try them. That's one of many examples.
I've gone from 204 lbs to 142 lbs, and I'm much stronger. I never had abs when I was in the Corps. I kinda like 'em now!
I just stick to the basic exercises, do the same ones every time - that way I KNOW whether I'm progressing or not. Just about all of the routines posted on this site are WAY too complicated for me.
I think half the battle of getting a good workout in is really enjoying the exercises you're doing.
Join date: Nov 2006
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 3367
I'm on the final week of a cookie-cutter program I got from this site. I hate most of the workouts, for the reasons Dickbag described.
However, the training has been very effective.
Also, I got out of my comfort zone for almost all of my workouts these past weeks. I believe this was valuable for me. Previously, I laughed at circuits and training-to-failure. Now, not so much anymore.
So I hated it, but it worked, and I learned something.
Aside from rank beginners I don't think that most should follow a generic program to the letter.
I know many authors and their hardcore disciples frequently tell people to do the program as written, but I think they say this to protect the clueless who want to swap squats for leg extensions or dead lifts for hamstring curls.
To tell you the truth I can't blame the authors for their recommendation because almost every week I read beginners ask if they could make the changes I just described!
That said, if anyone casually followed the physique clinics the first thing they should have noticed is how the coaches adjusted the "base" diets and programs according to how the participants' bodies responded. Said otherwise, they didn't insist on having the participants follow the programs as written!
You don't need an advanced degree to do the same; you just need a basic understanding of exercise and nutrition, the ability to observe how your body responds, common sense, and confidence in yourself to understand that you know your body better than anyone else and can make the appropriate decisions.
DickBag wrote:
What i'm getting at is, is there anyone whos made gains from just training whatever the hell way they wanted rather than follow the herd?
I made my best strength gains using a heavily modified version of HSS-100, despite the fact it's NOT a strength routine. I get templates, listen to my body, and modify as I see fit.
Natural Nate wrote:
I just stick to the basic exercises, do the same ones every time - that way I KNOW whether I'm progressing or not. Just about all of the routines posted on this site are WAY too complicated for me.
I think half the battle of getting a good workout in is really enjoying the exercises you're doing.
I agree with this. I wouldn't work out if I didn't enjoy it.
Join date: Oct 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 18954
Rockscar wrote:
Bag of dick:
It's not the program, it's the lifter.
Quite honestly, grinding heavy reps until it hurts is all it requires. I am a proponent of LESS IS MORE. Simple programs with high intensity will always work better than Any "expert" designed stuff.....for me at least.
I've never followed a program from here, or anywhere else, the nearest I ever got was being heavily influenced by Westside: and that gives you guidlines you apply yourself.
IMHO unless you tailor your training to fit your requirements / limitations you'll only get second rate results once you're past noob status.
My answer: nope. Never. I pretty much favor abstract concepts over concrete implementations/routines.
That's not to say it would've hurt me to at least take a look at some concrete routines; I would've been able to learn some new concepts by somehow reverse-engineering them.
More's the pity: I made the strongest impacts on my physique (building muscle, losing fat) before I came to this site. I'm sure I would've made lots of things better than I actually did had I had access to T-Nation from the very beginning of my training.
Concerning the herd analogy: I've gotten my best results by combining stuff that I like with stuff that I know/experienced works with some new stuff I've recently learnt about and that at least has a grain of comprehensible logic to it.
edit: I've forgotten something. There's a routine by Dan John that I use without any modification: tabata squats.
I would add one piece of caution on throwing away exercises you do not like doing after trying them only once or twice. I think that can be an easy way of missing out on gains simply because something is different. I did not like one-legged squats at first, but after a few weeks of doing them out of necessity from a back injury, I think they are invaluable (at least from an athletic standpoint).
Your right about that. for the most part its good to stick things out, but there comes a time when theres an exercise that simply sucks like romanian deadlifts or lunges.
i would prefer to spend the extra energy i have doing a few extra sets of an exercise i like rather than do a few movements that im not so sure about afterwards.
id rather 12 sets of squats only than do 4 sets of squats, then 3 sets of leg press, followed by a few sets of lunges and then quad extensions for example. thats why lately all ive been doing for legs is squats.
Hey, if nothing else, at least you have a mesmerizing avatar. That thing always cracks me up.
Maybe that's why I have the emotional maturity of a 13 year old.
we're in the same boat. i nearly bought a storm trooper helmet one day because of the avator. if that isnt childish then i dont know what is
Quite honestly, grinding heavy reps until it hurts is all it requires. I am a proponent of LESS IS MORE. Simple programs with high intensity will always work better than Any "expert" designed stuff.....for me at least.
i agree. we are meant for each other, we always have been and dont you dare deny it
i like hard training with basic exercises rather than meticulous planning of programmes and so on. maybe its because im not advanced enough to get meticulous, or maybe its because i have an artificial penis.
it seems that theres alot of people who meticulously plan out their training and write up big reports in their logs, but then i ask the question... can the same results be made from being simple and training hard rather than getting to complicated?
bertil fox comes to mind after posting on this thread.
at 2:12 in the frame he talks about how he doesnt believe what people write in magazines and so on. basically he does his own thing, and every one else is full of bullshit. lol
if a top bodybuilder can get to that level doing his own thing then it makes me wonder why so many people are crazy for the ultimate routines by the top authors. im not comparing this site to the typical magazine. im just saying that if bertil fox can get massive like a cunte from doing whatever he wanted then im sure that alot of us can to.
dont get me wrong, theres alot to be learned from every article, but sometimes people get feckin ridiculous with their diets and plans and calorie intake and how many ounces of oats they had at 3:14 pm. i cant stand that stuff. i looked through a few logs on this site and nearly fell asleep!! fuck sake
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