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Things I Can't Prove, But Believe
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LankyMofo
Level 1

Join date: Nov 2007
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Posts: 3676

I wanted to start a thread about things that you really can't prove, but absolutely believe. This thread will contain no scientific evidence. We can debate through anecdotal evidence all we want, but lets leave the studies to the scientists.

A good example is when X said something along the lines of people with big arms with relatively small forearms are usually on gear, because it takes a certain level of whole arm strength to be able to curl a significant amount of weight. Don't quote me on that, but I believe that was the gist of it.

I'll start. I firmly believe that whatever type of protein you consume, it really doesn't matter. Complete, incomplete, I don't think it really makes any difference.

Also, vegetables are completely overrated. I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I've eaten vegetables that aren't potatoes..

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Professor X
Level 4

Join date: Oct 2002
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Posts: 31826

LankyMofo wrote:
I wanted to start a thread about things that you really can't prove, but absolutely believe. This thread will contain no scientific evidence. We can debate through anecdotal evidence all we want, but lets leave the studies to the scientists.

A good example is when X said something along the lines of people with big arms with relatively small forearms are usually on gear, because it takes a certain level of whole arm strength to be able to curl a significant amount of weight. Don't quote me on that, but I believe that was the gist of it.

I'll start. I firmly believe that whatever type of protein you consume, it really doesn't matter. Complete, incomplete, I don't think it really makes any difference.

Also, vegetables are completely overrated. I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I've eaten vegetables that aren't potatoes.




I'll stick with that one. I don't know too many guys with huge biceps and triceps but tiny little forearms unless they basically started using steroids right out the gate.


Also, one I talk about a lot, is that there are very few really BIG guys who never bulked up before (very often for years at a time). Even the ones who claim they never did will reveal how they really ate if you grill them on it.

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Bauer97
Level 4

Join date: Aug 2005
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 2638

1. I think maybe 1% of the people who think they've 'overtrained' actually are. People don't give their bodies a chance to adapt to an unusually high stress and grow bigger/stronger before they run screaming in the other direction.

2. I think people should train to failure more often if their primary goal is hypertrophy.

3. I think back squats suck for tall lifters. I don't even do them anymore, and have replaced them entirely with front squats, and my leg development has never been better.

4. I think anyone who trains hard needs at least 2g/protein per lbs. bodyweight, even if you're over 200lbs.

5. I think a sausage and pepperoni pizza is the greatest food on earth for gaining mass.


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LankyMofo
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Join date: Nov 2007
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Bauer97 wrote:

3. I think back squats suck for tall lifters. I don't even do them anymore, and have replaced them entirely with front squats, and my leg development has never been better.


I'll have to keep this in mind.

4. I think anyone who trains hard needs at least 2g/protein per lbs. bodyweight, even if you're over 200lbs.


So you're eating almost 600g of protein/day? I'm about 245 right now and stick with around 300g/day. Upping that amount by another 200 grams seems like a huge pain in the ass. You really think the gains are noticeably quicker?

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LankyMofo
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Join date: Nov 2007
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Professor X wrote:
Also, one I talk about a lot, is that there are very few really BIG guys who never bulked up before (very often for years at a time). Even the ones who claim they never did will reveal how they really ate if you grill them on it.


This has definitely been beaten to death, but I was checking out Mad Titan's profile when he posted in the other thread. I don't know much about his training since he stopped posting before I started, but he seems like the type of person who has stayed relatively lean throughout his training. Do you know if that's true? If it is, we can say we found our Ted...

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Professor X
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Join date: Oct 2002
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LankyMofo wrote:
Bauer97 wrote:

3. I think back squats suck for tall lifters. I don't even do them anymore, and have replaced them entirely with front squats, and my leg development has never been better.

I'll have to keep this in mind.

4. I think anyone who trains hard needs at least 2g/protein per lbs. bodyweight, even if you're over 200lbs.

So you're eating almost 600g of protein/day? I'm about 245 right now and stick with around 300g/day. Upping that amount by another 200 grams seems like a huge pain in the ass. You really think the gains are noticeably quicker?


I haven't counted it out, but before 4pm I know I get down over 250gr...and I eat at least 2-3 more times. I don't personally think it needs to be that high (2gr/lbs) to see optimal progress. I grew just fine in college and I had no protein supplements.

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Professor X
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Join date: Oct 2002
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LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Also, one I talk about a lot, is that there are very few really BIG guys who never bulked up before (very often for years at a time). Even the ones who claim they never did will reveal how they really ate if you grill them on it.

This has definitely been beaten to death, but I was checking out Mad Titan's profile when he posted in the other thread. I don't know much about his training since he stopped posting before I started, but he seems like the type of person who has stayed relatively lean throughout his training. Do you know if that's true? If it is, we can say we found our Ted...


MadTitan looks great, but he is not HUGE. He maintains his weight under 180lbs most of the time. His genetic proportions make him look bigger than he is just like 1morerep on this site who is only about 150lbs.

When I am referring to big guys, I mean people who can walk around "relatively lean" over 250lbs at average height.

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cadav
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1) i think overtrain exist but it's rare as an honest politician

2) i think very high volume is the best for small muscolar group

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LankyMofo
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Join date: Nov 2007
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Professor X wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Also, one I talk about a lot, is that there are very few really BIG guys who never bulked up before (very often for years at a time). Even the ones who claim they never did will reveal how they really ate if you grill them on it.

This has definitely been beaten to death, but I was checking out Mad Titan's profile when he posted in the other thread. I don't know much about his training since he stopped posting before I started, but he seems like the type of person who has stayed relatively lean throughout his training. Do you know if that's true? If it is, we can say we found our Ted...

MadTitan looks great, but he is not HUGE. He maintains his weight under 180lbs most of the time. His genetic proportions make him look bigger than he is just like 1morerep on this site who is only about 150lbs.

When I am referring to big guys, I mean people who can walk around "relatively lean" over 250lbs at average height.


Yeah, I just rechecked his profile and didn't realize he was that light. A relatively lean, over 250 pound, average height guy is huge. I don't think most people even have the genetic ability to get that big, regardless of how they train.

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LankyMofo
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cadav wrote:
2) i think very high volume is the best for small muscolar group



This actually makes sense to me. Calves, forearms and traps seem to respond much better to high volume.

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rainjack
Level 0

Join date: Apr 2003
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 14606

Bauer97 wrote:
1. I think maybe 1% of the people who think they've 'overtrained' actually are. People don't give their bodies a chance to adapt to an unusually high stress and grow bigger/stronger before they run screaming in the other direction.

2. I think people should train to failure more often if their primary goal is hypertrophy.

3. I think back squats suck for tall lifters. I don't even do them anymore, and have replaced them entirely with front squats, and my leg development has never been better.

4. I think anyone who trains hard needs at least 2g/protein per lbs. bodyweight, even if you're over 200lbs.

5. I think a sausage and pepperoni pizza is the greatest food on earth for gaining mass.





I agree 100% with 1-3.

#4 - I believe that is probably going to be age/testosterone level dependent. I can get 325g down okay - but when I get close to 400g of protein - I have problems. Well - not so much me as it is those having to share a crapper with me.

#5 - I agree with the pizza - hell any pizza - being a good bulker. But the best is all you can eat Chinese Buffet. I was once a pizza buffet guy. Ci-Ci's will always hold a special place in my heart. But once I delved into the eastern religions, I became in touch with my inner chinese. Pisses the kids off to no end when I pull into the Lin's Grand Buffet.

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Bauer97
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Join date: Aug 2005
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 2638


LankyMofo wrote:


So you're eating almost 600g of protein/day? I'm about 245 right now and stick with around 300g/day. Upping that amount by another 200 grams seems like a huge pain in the ass. You really think the gains are noticeably quicker?



Yes, I am. I rarely keep track, but when I have, my protein has fallen between 550 and 650g/day (Since I've been over 260lbs.).

I've also had "nutrition experts" on this site tell me I'm stupid for eating that much. At the same time, I've had other "nutrition experts" on this site tell me that what I'm doing is obviously working. I tend to agree with the latter, particularly since they happen to be the same ones who look far more impressive than the ones in the former group.

When I'm eating the number of calories I am when trying to gain mass (which is roughly 10 months out of the year, and falls within 5,000-6,500 calories/day), a huge chunk of those calories comes from protein. Even at 600g/day, that's only 2,400 calories from protein, making up roughly 1/3rd of my macronutrient intake for the day.

If I'm going to be consuming excess calories, I would prefer they come in the form of protein more-so than carbs and/or fat, because I think protein is a superior macronutrient to have a surplus of, given my goals.

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Flow
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Join date: Aug 2006
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Posts: 1498

I don't know of any scientific studies that prove this, but I guess that's the point of the thread. lol

Listen to the internet too much and your training will suffer.

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Doug Adams
Level 4

Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland, USA
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Unless there's an injury involved, single leg work is pointless until two legged squats and deadlifts are perfected. How in the world are you supposed to do a movement on one leg if you can't do it right on two?

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Dave284
Level 3

Join date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 421

Macronutrient breakdown shouldnt be as exact as the majority of people make it. For someone under 200lb there is no point trying to limit carb intake if you want to grow.

The overtraining point is a good one. In powerlifting terms there seems to almost be a fear of pulling in some circles. I dont know if this is due to the relative lack of deadlifting done at Westside, but deadlifting every week will not kill anyone!

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Zap Branigan
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Join date: Oct 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 18954

Good thread. Keep 'em coming.

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Bergman
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2007
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 213

Powerlifting:

I believe speed deadlifts are pointless, whereas speed squats do wonders for both your squat and your deadlift.

I believe eating a huge pasta dinner the night before a meet is much more beneficial than a huge steak dinner.

Lifting in general:

I believe forearms are the best marker of a person who trains hard. It's "easy" to get a big chest or some big guns, but forearms... take forever and a day to develop.

I believe bosu balls have absolutely no place in a weight room. I'd like to see a study confirm this one, though.

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jehovasfitness
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Join date: Jan 2006
Location: Maryland, USA
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Bergman wrote:
Powerlifting:



I believe bosu balls have absolutely no place in a weight room. I'd like to see a study confirm this one, though.


Why, because people might have different goals than you?
Not saying I personally use the BOSU (have in the past) and rarely if ever have a client use one.

I just hate how many on this site dismiss a simple tool because many people misuse it or because it doesn't directly help them with their own personal goal.

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Bergman
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Join date: Mar 2007
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 213

Perhaps I should modify that from "weight room" to "serious weight room".

I've got no problems with them being used by the "fitness facility" people. I'm sure they can have real exercises that have real benefit. However, in any situation I've ever seen them the simple "misuse" that you describe is rampant. Moreso than with any other tool, I would reckon. This then begs the question - should an apparatus be removed due to misuse or should the misuse itself be corrected? I'd hate to see the squat rack removed because of people using it to practice their hurdles, so I guess I can see your point of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

However, in a serious weight room, designed to move max poundages, I fail to see how unstable surface training has a place. Unless of course, I am training for a meet in California, where there is bound to be an earthquake.

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Doug Adams
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jehovasfitness wrote:
Why, because people might have different goals than you?
Not saying I personally use the BOSU (have in the past) and rarely if ever have a client use one.

I just hate how many on this site dismiss a simple tool because many people misuse it or because it doesn't directly help them with their own personal goal.


It just seems like a BOSU ball is a "cheap" (for lack of a better term) tool that can be easily replaced by other more useful tools. Sort of like those adjustable wrenches that may work in a pinch, but usually wind up rounding off bolt heads instead.

You can use dense foam to help with ankle instability, but then turn around and use that foam for natural GHRs, foam box squats, stretching, etc. For upper body stuff, regular swiss balls and med balls can be used.

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Scott M
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Join date: Aug 2005
Location: Maryland, USA
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Cardio is not done enough by people who are in size gain mode.

I can't PROVE it but I am sold the person who eats 4000 calories a day will not be as lean or big as the person who eats 4500 calories a day but does 45 minutes on the treadmill 3-4 times a week first thing in the morning come 6+ months down the road.

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jehovasfitness
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Join date: Jan 2006
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 8524

Scott M wrote:
Cardio is not done enough by people who are in size gain mode.

I can't PROVE it but I am sold the person who eats 4000 calories a day will not be as lean or big as the person who eats 4500 calories a day but does 45 minutes on the treadmill 3-4 times a week first thing in the morning come 6+ months down the road.


I think that can be proven through science if you just think about the cardiovascular system and its function.

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Bauer97
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Join date: Aug 2005
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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Doug Adams wrote:


You can use dense foam to help with ankle instability, but then turn around and use that foam for natural GHRs, foam box squats, stretching, etc. For upper body stuff, regular swiss balls and med balls can be used.



Natural GHR's are actually the exact (and only) thing I use a BOSU for. They're awesome for that purpose.

I have yet to see a BOSU used for any other exercise that couldn't be done more effectively on solid ground, however.

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Dirty Tiger
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Join date: Aug 2004
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1451

Bauer97 wrote:


3. I think back squats suck for tall lifters. I don't even do them anymore, and have replaced them entirely with front squats, and my leg development has never been better.



I've recently made the same conclusion. I'm going focus on front squats for the next several months and see where it takes me.

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LankyMofo
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Join date: Nov 2007
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Scott M wrote:
Cardio is not done enough by people who are in size gain mode.

I can't PROVE it but I am sold the person who eats 4000 calories a day will not be as lean or big as the person who eats 4500 calories a day but does 45 minutes on the treadmill 3-4 times a week first thing in the morning come 6+ months down the road.


For whatever reason, I disagree with this. Obviously eating more will make the person bigger, and cardio will keep the person leaner. However, when combined it seems they would cancel each other out. Then again, I can't prove this, either.

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