whats the word on it?

and whats the difference between

C.E.E HCL

and just C.E.E??

Still no article on it :(

Personally, I was a long time creatine monohydrate user and when i found out about this stuff I used it. IMO, it is better then normal creatine, I saw more gains off of it and I didn't have the water retention normal creatine has. I have also tried Kre-Alkalyn. IMO you can't go wrong wiht either one but I like CEE better because I lovee the taste (i use BSN's Cellmass)

I tried it and I noticed a great pump while on it. I used Author L Rea's brand.

I talked about this in Prime Time last week. Basically it's regular creatine with a jacked up price (and corresponding hype).

The only thing it really does is ruin the taste of Surge. :P

BTW-I'm waiting to see data from Ed Byrd before I submit the next creatine article.

Cheers

The difference = fifty bucks

I am looking forward to hearing what Ed and Dave have to say.

You can buy in bulk for cheap. Not much more than monohydrate. I bought online from a website called True Protein. But I basically agree with David Barr and Dr. Ryan. It's really nothing special. I think the only benefits over monohydrate are less bloating and no cramping. So, if you don't bloat much on monohydrate or don't mind the bloat and don't have any stomach issues, there's no real reason to get the CEE.

Since I've gone from mono to ester my pump in the gym is .... oooohhhh.... so sweet.....

I've been on ester for about a month now and I love it! I'm a 5 year creatine user and I've never had the results I've had with any other type of creatine.

More notable reps with heavy weight.
My opinion; It's the shit!

OD

actually i got 500 grams for 12 bucks.

But I still have some reg. creatine wondering if I should send it back.

CEE tastes like DEATH. The one I have tastes just like powdered DEATH. There's no other word for it just POISON lol.

I like reg creatine cause i can mix it in anything and not taste shit :-P

I can have CEE for cheaper than the monohydrate so I'll give it a shot next time I need to purchase creatine.

^^
I doubt either of you is getting legit stuff the production costs of Estered Creatine should be much more than the simple monohydrate version.

Mine wasn't that expensive and it came in capsule form so taste wasn't an issue. However, I did notice a great pump but that's all I noticed. For just a pump, it's not worth the $.
I was always a non-responder to regular creatine.Even though this was touted as being so much better this was the only response I garnered.

I won't be using it again but I don't regret experimenting.

Toss the CEE in with some diluted Crystal Light. Goes down nice and easy that way.

Pudge.

I've found it to work about the same. To be honest though I don't really ever gain shit off creatine anymore. When I first used it many years ago I'd get somewhere around 5-8 lbs. Now when I take it all I get is a better pump and maybe a few more reps. Also cee tastes like complete dogshit...poisonous dogshit.

C'mon man, don't straw man me with the lame argument that teens use.

Biotest has nothing to do with this so leave the company out of it.

I respect your opinion but don't believe it to be accurate. This product can't possibly work the way it is supposed to, for about 100 different reasons (which I will address).

If you think it works for you, then cool. But subjective opinions are useless when it comes to assessing the validity of a supplement.

You've shown me that this article is more important than ever -not to show anyone that they're "wrong" (which would just be lame and should never be attempted), but more to show that the theory doesn't stand up.

Regardless, if you think it works for you, then keep it up.

Cheers

Dave, I'm looking forward to being informed man. Thank you for taking the time to research this stuff. can't wait for the article.

I really don't know about ethyl ester..I'm curious about it actually. I'm finding a serious lack of reliable and well written info about creatine, despite it's incredible popularity. I've always found monohydrate to cause a serious amount of bloating. Unpleasant, definition blurring bloating.

That, until I tried a Tri-creatine Malate product. Then I retained *far* less water and in the "right" places. Now...there could be a million reasons for it. I'm thinking it's a dosage issue and also just a sheer absorption issue. It might be that my stomach was converting the mono into creatinine. This could have to do with poor ingestion techniques.

A lot of things factor in..but as it stands, the whole experience with the tricreatine malate has opened me up to other 'easy to use' creatines that won't cause that dreaded 12 lb 'all over' water gain that takes about 3 days to invade.

This being said..I have a hell of a lot respect for Dave Barr's opinions. That's one very knowledgeable guy. So I'm also looking forward to his article on this subject and am hoping that he'll shed some light on the whole thing. Proper usage and all. (hopefully that doesn't involve ingesting 60 g's of sugar)

Though in my post workout nutrition there is a large burst of sugar with my protein shake but there are issues there, it's largely fructose (ie. real juice) and it's acidic. So I don't know. I could restructure that whole shake, but I do like it.....however I'm getting frustrated trying to find the right creatine solution, cause now that I've found one that doesn't cause severe bloating I've confirmed that the positives I've experperienced with it are worth all the effort.

If anyone's bothered to read all this you're probably asking yourself why I don't continue to use that same product...well it also contains glycocyamine. So yeah, no more of that for me.

Pure tricreatines seem to exist but are scarce and at this point I'd just like some solid recommendations from some solid people, like the experts here and some of you guys.

The only product containing regular monohydrate I ever had zero bloating with was Vitargo CGL, but that had to go or else I wouldn't be able to enjoy my daily Surge!!!

Why dose everyone think that creatine is supposed to cause gains in mass? The only weight that one could EVER gain from creatine is water weight. Creatne simply hydrates your muscle cells. It's not gunna make you super hyoooge like arnold or strong like superman. The most you will get out of it is better recovery and more musculare endurance, which can LEAD to better gains in mass or strength, but will not do it on it's own. Creatine is found in most(if not all) meat products, so no unnatural gains can not be expected. If they could, then anyone who ate meat would be super huge and super strong. If you already eat alot of meat, you probably wont gain anything by using it. CEE is bullshit IMO, which I can't back up with any proof at all. But just by looking at some of the stupid claims the companies are making about it, it's pretty obvious that it's BS.

jsbrook, you know, I've never really understood the whole bloating thing. I've never had it, none of my clients or athletes have had it, and it's not supported by the hundreds of subjects in the scientific literature (kinda went into this on another thread).

As far as not needing to load, we don't need to do this with creatine anyway. :P

Fewer gastric side effects? Possibly, but Lyle McDonald had lab analysis performed on several CEE products and found that none of them were pure CEE. If this isn't a case for the placebo effect, I don't know what is

Great questions!

Griffin, I agree that the direct gains coming from creatine are greatly exaggerated.

Although there is no measurable effect on protein synthesis, and the anticatabolic effect is questionable, I can't help but believe that there is a small long-term effect on muscle mass.

Whether it's indirect from training, or direct from anticatabolism, or even a combination of both, there's likely an effect.

Cheers