I was on John's site and for weightlifters he recomeends a diet of 30% protein, 40% carbs, and 20-30% fats.

While I agree with this...I'm so confused about a lot of stuff. Bare with me for a moment please.

I gotta eat a bit over 4000 cals to get my shit together for energy demands between lifting and boxing.

So for me this would be about - over 5 meals lets say (excluding postworkout drink)
1200 cals protein
1600 cals carbs
1200 cals fat

How the hell do I get all my carb requirements?
This means I gotta eat a bit over 5 meals with 75 carbs in each meal?

I thought it was bad to eat carbs all day long etc and at night.

Most carbs should be consumed in the morning, and after workouts.

I workout at night..which emans I have my simple carbs and protein afte rworkout..then one big carb n protein meal.

During the day I gotta eat a shitload of carbs

30% of fats means I gotta eat 25gs of fat per each meal.
Thats 75gs of carbs, and 25gs of fats AT EACH MEAL

I THOUGHT we werenèt supposed to mix fat and carbs together (or at least its better not to)
But here I am completely. Im mixing everything.

Fuckin shit man - You know how confusde I am about this

My question:
Seriously: how does one get all their energy requirements without doing the above

Please help lol.
At the same time Im not worried about fat gain as well over a bulk..I mean some fat gain..I donèt want to become a fat bastard like I have seen some people do over a ;bulk;

Thank you for all replies, Im very interested in responses.

This same confusion was expressed by a reader in his Appetite for Construction series that used to be here on T-Mag.

Aim for six meals and 2 to 3 peri-workout shakes (pre-, mid-, and post-workout nutrition).

If you don't want to mix carbs and fats at each meal, then don't.

There are fat grams in carbohydrate sources and protein, so make sure you count this into your total fat grams for a meal and for the day. Even oatmeal has 3 grams of fat per serving. The aim with his original food combinations is to have 10 grams or less of fat at each P+C meal and 15 grams or less of carbohydrates at each P+F meal. He suggests that you can eat beans and fruits with P+F meals now, so that can fill some of the carb allotment for the day. Vegetables are allowed at all meals too. Count that into carb allotment for the day too.

People have to really map out their nutrition on paper to see what it all will look like.

1600 calories from carbs is only 400g, that happens to be exactly what I take. I'll usually have 90-100g preworkout, 80g after with my whey, and another 100 in the postworkout meal. That's 280, and the other 120g are mostly at breakfast and one other meal.

I managed to keep my bodyfat single digits with a 30P/45C/25F split; eating a few hundred over my maintenance.

Also, 4000 cal is a lot of food compared to mere mortals. Twice the amount shown on the RDA packages on food. It's going to be a lot of carbs, protein, and fat no matter what way you slice it.

So get to eatin'.

I think I will go with the 30P,45C, adn 25F just cause of all the energy I use.

I didn't know you took so many carbs pre-post (shake) and post workout meal (solid) I think I will do that as well and injest 100g's of carbs in the morning. This means I will have a total of 380 carbs! add in fruit etc during the day and I'm good to go!

Thanks for the help brother!

Yeah it's true about the carbs..I have to eat a lot of carbs at night either way because I box and come home late so...I need that damn food or I'll feel like hell.
I used to eat almonds and cottage cheese before bed, but I will try that olive oil. and lucky for me I love all types of berries and have tons of it at home :) lol.

So...do you eat that right before bed silvehydra? how much cinamon? I can eat that shit plain :) lol

So in those P+F meals how many carbs can we induce...I know the answer already..but if we are consuming fruit or beans it can over the limit? If so by how much?

So pretty much can anyone take a look at this set up

P+C = 100g's carbs
P+F = 20-25g's fat
P+F = 20-25g's fat
P+C = 100g carbs
P+C workout
P+C after workout + solid meal
P+F - right before bed cottage cheese and olive oil etc.

During my P+F meals I will eat some fruit/veggies. Might add those beans as well. Serving of fruits + veggies at EACH MEAL.

Fats will be equally distributed between the 3 fatty acids.

So here I am eating pretty damn healthy and a lot of food.
Protein is all good - chicken, salmon, tuna, 93% lean ground beef, steak, protein shakes, eggs.


How does this all look?
This would be following 30protein/45carb/25fats ratio.

Also I added that extra meal as mentioned by bricknyce.

has anyone seen if Berardi has made any comments in regards to the recent pre-training carbs recommendation as opposed to post-training as he has advised for years?

As well is it over a bulk/just grow and get all the energy I need for boxing and lifting. From all the shit I do I might have to go up to 4500 or so cals.

Also, quit bugging out about 'trace' calories.

Count protein in protein foods, carbs in carb foods and fat in fat foods. Makes life a lot simpler.

haha you guys all sound like your settin me straight like my old man

Berardi incorrectly based the whole F+C thing on the idea that insulin would store excess carbs as fat. It doesn't really work that way.

Unless you have a HUGE surpless of calories (surplus = way over maintenance) your body will not store a macro (one that is not fat) as fat. Look up De Novo Lipogenesis.

Now, calorically dense foods are usually C+F (usually, this is junk food) and people tend to overeat these foods because they taste good and are readily available, so by those virtues it is easy to get an excess of calories. So, when you are finally in the "excess" category of calorie consumption, that's when C+F foods are "dangerous."

Otherwise, don't worry about it. Berardi has been wrong about a few things (not bashing his knowledge or his products) but so have been a lot of gurus: Waterbury, Poliquin, even CT. Sometimes they even parrot what another guru says - without verifying the research themselves - and later retract their own words because that original guru was flat wrong (e.g., the whole C+F macro combination thing).

In short: hit your protein goal and worry about your "excess" cals (if you're bulking) in the form of peri-workout (that's peri-, not para-, guys) nutrition. Is it that easy? Yes.

PM me your email address and I'll send you a few good articles.

I've used the P+C/P+F idea before and honestly I noticed I gained more fat when I was having 100+g carbs in several meals with trace fat (and vice versa) than when I combine fat and carbs more evenly in a meal.

For instance, I used to wake up and have a huge smoothie than had at least 150g carbs in it with almost no fat. These days I prefer to have an omelet with whole eggs, veggies, and some sort of meat, and then some fruit mixed into some oatmeal. Works like a charm.

Like others have mentioned, the issue with combining fat and carbs comes up when you have a large insulin spike in the presence of fat, not so much when you have a slower source of each, both in more moderate quantities. At least that's what I've noticed with experimenting on my own body.

That being said, I make an exception around my workouts.

I don't think the whole preworkout nutrition thing is exactly brand new. In Black Book of Training Secrets, CT recommended a serving of Surge before and after training.

Shugart had his double dosing Surge protocol. The Nutrient Timing guys recommended some carbs and protein before workouts.

CT and Biotest took it way beyond and maximized preworkout nutrition. I like to go with some before and some after, is working out great for me.

I agree with BlakedaMan's statement about p+c/f is more about insulin management. I still seperate to a degree, but I don't really eat many heavy carb sources anyway. I mite mix some at breakfast, say eggs, vege, meat and some fats. then thirty mins later, oatmeal, whey, and berries. So still kind of seperated.

Also eat a lot of beans throughout the day and don't really worry about them being a carb. Also, they help you stretch the meat when the budget is tight. Really helped me when i was in college or sometimes right before payday.

Would a ratio of 30/45/25 be superior to the one CT laid out in his article Carb Cycling Codex?
http://www.tmuscle.com/...b_cycling_codex

According to his calculation system for bulking my ratios worked out to be ~30/35/35 on a high day with fats going as high as 45% on a low day.

Should i just shift more calories to carbs? or better yet just push my protein intake up to 1.75g/lb and then adjust my carbs/fats based off that?

Well CT is talking about carb cycling while a general macro ratio is an everyday thing. Superior depends on your bodytype and what your goals are. If you are looking to carb cycle then go for it and not tinker with what CT has laid out.

But on a day to day basis, 30/45/25 is a pretty decent way to go.