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icecold
Level 2
Join date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 470
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My wife is working through anxiety issues. Lexapro does not kill libido and it has made her life much better, but orgasms have gone from being easy to moderate to being difficult or not at all the last couple of months. I guess this indirectly affects libido. I do not mind putting in the work, but they used to always come even if it took a little more work. Now no telling.
She mentioned going shopping for a new vibrator as the other one is old and may not be around. I do not mind the kinky factor, but if it is the only solution to the problem that is what is sad. I guess if it does not work she may really address the issue.
I am aware of medicine and medications, and offer my opinion but I do not medicate my own wife. She is more worried about the anxiety than the orgasms, and understandably so as it became near disabling. Even with the side affects she loves her Lexapro.
Lexparo is supposed to be better than some, but is still bad. Welbutrin has less sexual affects but is not as good for anxiety; some have good success with adding it or using it to replace Lexapro. Ultram works well with no sexual side affects but is off label and can be addicting. I bought Claritin because for some it helps with sexual side affects but she only took it one or two days.
My wife appreciates that I am concerned. If I wanted one way sex I could pay a prostitute and tell her to moan. My wife also has a complex about taking even more medications than she does already, and this includes supplements.
Anxiety is not uncommon in men but I see more middle aged women than not that are medicated for it. I am not saying some medications are not over prescribed, but I also know several women who I swear need to take something for anxiety that are not taking anything.
Antidepressants/anxiety medications suck.
I once took a beta-blocker for off label reasons to steady hands when tired. It was like anti Viagra and killed my erections. It scared the shit out of me as I was young and in my twenties at the time. I was not living a healthy life at the time so I realized if I really did need to start taking these medications it would suck. So I believe sexual side affects to medications are much more common and severe than stated. Some of the most common mediations have the worst affects.
I know some of you must have advice here. I know at least 50% of the married men have wives on these medications. I understand the science, but practical advice would be appreciated.
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nevinf
Level 0
Join date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 31
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icecold,
No question that anti-depressants effect orgasm...I have experienced it first hand. The good news for me is that after about 4 months or so of taking the medication (Effexor), I completely returned to normal and have absolutely no troubles. I can shoot off loads like I used to. Mind you, I'm not on a heavy dose.
So...hang in there...it may clear up on it's own. |
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pushharder
Level 4
Join date: Apr 2005
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 18624
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I'm not a doctor (even though I play one on TV) but in my wife's case in the past she had doctors prescribing anxiety meds when we now know that it was just good old fashioned excess estrogen.
I'm so glad she didn't stay on that stuff.
Again, I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to YOUR WIFE's case. |
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holmesd
Level 1
Join date: Dec 2002
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 11
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My wife takes Amitriptyline at night. It has not affected our sex life much. It is very low dose, and mainly takes the edge off. She could take something stronger and it would affect our sex life. |
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Chushin
Level 5
Join date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 1948
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Icecold,
There's a psychiatrist who posts regularly on the Over 35 board. Dr.CleanandPress or something like that. Seems like a really cool guy. (He dislikes most docs!)
Don't know how he'd react, but maybe PM him or something?
Also, is your wife getting any non-med treatment? That could be important in anxiety cases..
Good luck. |
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Yo Momma
Level 0
Join date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 3775
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Chushin wrote:
Also, is your wife getting any non-med treatment? That could be important in anxiety cases..
Good luck.
Beer is good for anxiety.
It's also good for sex.
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BigRagoo
Level 0
Join date: Jun 2005
Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 7271
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Yo Momma wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Also, is your wife getting any non-med treatment? That could be important in anxiety cases..
Good luck.
Beer is good for anxiety.
It's also good for sex.
Hot DAMN! Yo Momma gets it! Bravo, bravo! Beer is food and medicine in my house and those two examples are top among the reasons why.
Strong beer = strong sex. Last night was a prime example :) |
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dirtbag
Level 0
Join date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 2698
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I have taken Paxil. That that crap made me into a not orgasming p0rn star. I could go and go and go and go. I would get close to blowing and it would calm right back down. My gf at the time would complain that she was sore and I have to admit I was too. I had to really focus and get lost in the moment to get my peek to blow up. It sucks to not blow and I went off it. Everything is back to normal and lesson learned.
Get the vibrators and everything you need. Look at it this way, new chance to spend more time doing what you love to do with your wife. |
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entheogens
Level 2
Join date: Aug 2006
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1781
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pushharder wrote:
I'm not a doctor (even though I play one on TV)
I have suspected for some time now that you're really Alan Alda.
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Dr.PowerClean
Level 1
Join date: Sep 2007
Location:
Posts: 1127
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Chushin wrote:
Icecold,
There's a psychiatrist who posts regularly on the Over 35 board. Dr.CleanandPress or something like that. Seems like a really cool guy. (He dislikes most docs!)
Good luck.
I used to like the Clean and Press, but they eliminated that lift. I was left with just being a Power Clean and Jerk guy. lol
Seriously, it saddens me to hear the realities of what I have struggled with throughout much of my career. The simple fact is, most antidepressants and antianxiety medicines do "suck." They almost all have a price to pay, either in side effects or addiction.
However, in many cases the problem can be improved if one is willing to experiment with different options. For instance, with patients with mild to moderate depression with anxiety, if they have unacceptible sexual dysfunction, I recommend the following strategies.
1. A trial of Wellbutrin, starting at low doses due to poor tolerance to this drug in anxious patients.
2. A trial of a different SSRI, as they are NOT all the same, some patients have less loss of libido on one SSRI than another. Consider Zoloft or Prozac, not Paxil unless you are thin (weight gain is more likely).
3. A trial of St. Johns Wort. This herb is one of the few that actually works, I would say I got 1 patient out of 10 to successfully convert to this med. No sexual dysfunction.
4. A trial of Remeron. An atypical antidepressant, initially hard to tolerate due to grogginess, and takes a month to work, but when it does, much lower sexual sides.
5. Get a comprehensive hormone panel. Although the Lexapro is obviously the culprit, if estrogen/progesterone is out of balance, HRT can help with the sexual functioning.
6. Also check testosterone. In T deficient women (yes, women make small amounts of T) sex drive is low, and adding a very low dose topical cream can do wonders for sex drive and function in women.
7. Try the herbal libido boosters for women at the Health Food Store. Low odds, 1 in 50, but when it works it's a home run.
8. There are some long shot strategies involving other medicines used off label to counteract this problem. PM me if you get this far.
9. Lastly, look at the illness and try to make a clear determination if it is situational or more genetic in nature. If it is more situational, do everything in your power to decrease stress, use psychotherapy, make lifestyle changes, and boost your nutrition in brain vital chemicals (Vitamins B complex, C, Omega 3/6) and then try to get off the Lexapro. The longer you stay on it (as in years) the harder it is to get off.
Good Luck, Doc
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Chushin
Level 5
Join date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 1948
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Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Icecold,
There's a psychiatrist who posts regularly on the Over 35 board. Dr.CleanandPress or something like that. Seems like a really cool guy. (He dislikes most docs!)
Good luck.
I used to like the Clean and Press, but they eliminated that lift. I was left with just being a Power Clean and Jerk guy. lol
Hey Doc, sorry about the name thing! But thanks for helping this guy out. You're ok in my book.
C |
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icecold
Level 2
Join date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 470
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Thanks for trying to help everyone.
Doc I really appreciate the long and insightful post.
I will give a bump and let everyone know how this turns out.
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Thomas Gabriel
Level 1
Join date: Nov 2005
Location: Alberta, CAN
Posts: 1266
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I hate SSRI's so much. Doctors are like used car salesmen the way they push them. I got suckered into trying celexa this past couple months. Didn't help anxiety at all, and I'm currently trying to quit. I was puking all night last night. If it is just anxiety she is having, try and get her on benzo's instead. They are addictive, but they actually help, and have very little side effects. |
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pushharder
Level 4
Join date: Apr 2005
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 18624
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Dr.PowerClean wrote:
...5. Get a comprehensive hormone panel. Although the Lexapro is obviously the culprit, if estrogen/progesterone is out of balance, HRT can help with the sexual functioning...
Doc, have you seen pronounced, dramatic improvements with the use of topical OTC progesterone creme?
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Dr.PowerClean
Level 1
Join date: Sep 2007
Location:
Posts: 1127
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Thomas Gabriel wrote:
I hate SSRI's so much. Doctors are like used car salesmen the way they push them. I got suckered into trying celexa this past couple months. Didn't help anxiety at all, and I'm currently trying to quit. I was puking all night last night. If it is just anxiety she is having, try and get her on benzo's instead. They are addictive, but they actually help, and have very little side effects.
Beware. Benzo's do work very well and have very few side effects, but don't underestimate the addiction potential. If someone is having a situational anxiety crisis, and does not have a history of addictions, I give benzo's and stress the goal of getting off of them as soon as is feasible.
If the anxiety is chronic (years), and/or has a strong genetic (familial) component, if it can be managed without benzo's, it is better to do so. Besides being addictive, benzo's have a wicked tolerance problem, meaning each year on them a patient will typically become unresponsive to them and need higher dosages. Twenty years later, people are on 6-10mg per day of Ativan or Xanax and their lives are screwed.
There are exceptions. In particular, in people with panic disorder, who have bursts of intense anxiety, but not all day every day anxiety, use of benzo's prn (as needed) is a wonderful, very effective solution. Same thing with people with focal anxieties such as phobias; take a benzo in that situation, fine, no problems arise with addiction.
One thing I forgot to mention earlier, one herbal, Kava Kava, really does work, and should definitely be tried. For many people, it has a benzo-like effect without the down side. Doc
BTW, Thomas, you're right about the docs being like used car salesman pushing SSRI's. They are given tons of samples of them, free pens, calculators, coffee mugs etc with the drug prominently displayed, and even money for going to dinner and just saying to another doc that they use them, and other shit like that. I fell into that trap, when I was young and naive.
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Chushin
Level 5
Join date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 1948
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Thomas Gabriel wrote:
I hate SSRI's so much. Doctors are like used car salesmen the way they push them. I got suckered into trying celexa this past couple months. Didn't help anxiety at all, and I'm currently trying to quit. I was puking all night last night. If it is just anxiety she is having, try and get her on benzo's instead. They are addictive, but they actually help, and have very little side effects.
Thomas,
If you're trying to quit, you MUST read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/...1584&sr=1-1
It has specific instructions on how to quit properly & without suffering (as well as a ton of other really important SSRI info).
Written by a Harvard doc who is out to get the used car salesmen, it is woth its weight in gold.
Good luck. |
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yorik
Level 4
Join date: Feb 2003
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 1377
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How about something simple, like eliminating caffeine from her diet? Or getting out in the sun to get some vitamin D? (Try buying one sun tan at a salon as an experiement.) If you want to get more complex, look into microcurrent stimulation; see Shug's article on the AlphaStim unit. |
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bklab
Level 0
Join date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 2
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I've been a lurker on this site for about a year now and have enjoyed all the helpful info and entertaining stories. Until now, I've never really had a need to post anything but this subject has hit the bullseye of my "life challenges".
I've been battling anxiety and irritability for years and have always just chalked it up as "well, that's just how I am". I've tried Lexapro, Welbutrin, and Celexa (same as Lexapro I think) with limited success. Long story short, it curved some of my symptoms but also threw a HUGE curve in my sex life. Same symptoms as the rest of you-- delayed ejaculation. I mean REALLY delayed. So much so that at times I just gave up and quit. Really sucks.
Recently, I gave up on antidepressants and, naturally, I've become an impatient asshole again. I can, however, ejaculate normally once again.
You guys/gals discussed different types of medications as possible solutions for this and one of them caught my attention (Ultram). Short version-- I had back surgery about 1.5 years ago and one of the pain meds I was given was Tramadol (generic Ultram). This medication not only curved the pain but it also had another effect that I found odd. It actually seemed to put me in a good mood whenever I took it. I would be much less irritable, more patient, and just generally more happy. I don't think this med is a narcotic and perhaps the Doc on here can confirm that??? If it is a narcotic, then that of course explains the positive feelings.
My question is, because of the terrible side effects of the SSIR's and the lack of effectiveness of Welbutrin, is this something that could be prescribed as a form of an antidepressant without any dangers of addiction. I've been taking this off and on, since my surgery, for the last 1.5 years. I'd say I average 3-4 pills per WEEK. Would increasing the dosage to a daily amount put me at risk for addiction or would I eventually develop an immunity?
I know these are questions for my M.D. but, because Ultram is considered a pain medication, I've been afraid to ask him. I'm afraid he won't believe me or feel the use of this med as an antidepressant is unacceptable. Nevertheless, simply typing this and realizing there are others out there with similar situations is almost therapeutic. Has anyone ever had this type of pain med prescribed for symptoms of depression and/or do you think an M.D. would prescribe it for such reasons? Thanks for any help anyone can offer. |
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Dr.PowerClean
Level 1
Join date: Sep 2007
Location:
Posts: 1127
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bklab wrote:
I've been a lurker on this site for about a year now and have enjoyed all the helpful info and entertaining stories. Until now, I've never really had a need to post anything but this subject has hit the bullseye of my "life challenges".
I've been battling anxiety and irritability for years and have always just chalked it up as "well, that's just how I am". I've tried Lexapro, Welbutrin, and Celexa (same as Lexapro I think) with limited success. Long story short, it curved some of my symptoms but also threw a HUGE curve in my sex life. Same symptoms as the rest of you-- delayed ejaculation. I mean REALLY delayed. So much so that at times I just gave up and quit. Really sucks.
Recently, I gave up on antidepressants and, naturally, I've become an impatient asshole again. I can, however, ejaculate normally once again.
You guys/gals discussed different types of medications as possible solutions for this and one of them caught my attention (Ultram). Short version-- I had back surgery about 1.5 years ago and one of the pain meds I was given was Tramadol (generic Ultram). This medication not only curved the pain but it also had another effect that I found odd. It actually seemed to put me in a good mood whenever I took it. I would be much less irritable, more patient, and just generally more happy. I don't think this med is a narcotic and perhaps the Doc on here can confirm that??? If it is a narcotic, then that of course explains the positive feelings.
My question is, because of the terrible side effects of the SSIR's and the lack of effectiveness of Welbutrin, is this something that could be prescribed as a form of an antidepressant without any dangers of addiction. I've been taking this off and on, since my surgery, for the last 1.5 years. I'd say I average 3-4 pills per WEEK. Would increasing the dosage to a daily amount put me at risk for addiction or would I eventually develop an immunity?
I know these are questions for my M.D. but, because Ultram is considered a pain medication, I've been afraid to ask him. I'm afraid he won't believe me or feel the use of this med as an antidepressant is unacceptable. Nevertheless, simply typing this and realizing there are others out there with similar situations is almost therapeutic. Has anyone ever had this type of pain med prescribed for symptoms of depression and/or do you think an M.D. would prescribe it for such reasons? Thanks for any help anyone can offer.
Glad to help. Ultram was brought into market as a moderate strength pain pill which supposedly had no addictive potential. It is not technically an opiod, but has some chemical properties similar to opiates. As a result, over time, we have learned that it does have addictive properties. On a scale of 1 to 10, one being Afrin, 10 being Crack, I would say it's about a 3.5. Many people do get dependent on it if they take it daily, and have moderate, at times severe withdrawal getting off. However many, many people take it without addiction problems. Especially those who use it not every day.
There were TWO big surprises that came after Ultram was released. The first was the above addictive issue. The second was the discovery that Ultram has a mild effect on increasing Serotonin, and as a result, has mild to moderate effects on anxiety and depression in certain individuals. It is interesting also that this mechanism of increasing Serotonin is different from SSRI's and therefore does not cause the same sexual dysfunction.
After my car accident and back injury, I myself found Ultram to help with both pain and anxiety. I was quite surprised with this. It is still a far superior option for chronic pain than pure opiates, although usually it is not as strong. As far as just treating anxiety with it, I have used it this way for patients on relatively few occassions. Very few doctors, however, would agree with me. Most of the time, docs are convinced there is a better way. However, I think given the increasing frustration patients across the globe are having with SSRI's and benzo's, doctors may slowly become more open to this idea.
I have said to many a colleague, who looked back at me with a bewildered look, that "we need the next generation of Ultram." Big pharma constantly takes a compound that works but has "issues", and tries to make it better. Example, Celexa to Lexapro, Ritalin to Focalin. Not huge improvements, but if Ultram was just a little more effective OR a little less addictive, it would be a hit. Right now, they are just combining it with Tylenol-"Ultracet"- a useless step imo.
To answer the direct question, if you keep using Ultram 3-4 times per week, it will stay a helpful drug for you for many years. If you start taking it every day, more than 50mg, it'll stay good for at least a year, more likely five. Tolerance will develop, but relatively slowly in most cases. If this was your only good option at this time-I would do it.
Doc
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Rijati
Level 4
Join date: Apr 2007
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 42
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Lexapro does not kill libido
Whoever told you that is full of shit.
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Dr.PowerClean
Level 1
Join date: Sep 2007
Location:
Posts: 1127
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Rijati wrote:
Lexapro does not kill libido
Whoever told you that is full of shit.
This illustrates exactly what psychiatric medicine is all about. Take a drug, give it to two people, works on one, not on the other. Take two people with which the drug is working, one has side effects, the other doesn't.
It's trial and error. I will say that Lexapro has "less" sexual dysfunction than the other SSRI's in my experience, but not by much. Still way up there, like 60%.
Doc
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bklab
Level 0
Join date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 2
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Doc-- Thank you very much for the information. I appreciate your good "bedside manner" in this situation. Free advice isn't something that too many people are comfortable giving but I hope you knowing how much you've helped me in the little bit of time you spent, was worth your time. I realize you have to take information on forums like this with a grain of salt but, obviously, you know what you're talking about.
After I posted my message last night, I did some research on my own and found that you are right on the mark. My biggest fear is this med losing it's effect. My neurosurgeon hasn't had a problem (so far) prescribing me Tramadol for some of the residual pain I have from my back surgery (Laminectomy and conjoined nerves) so I'm not worried about being able to get it.
I would like to go to my M.D. and tell him how helpful this med is for my depression/anxiety/irritability/etc, but I'm fearful they'll put some type of note in my file about being a pill junkie. I've never had any activity in the past to indicate me being such but I just don't want to go there.
I'm thinking of taking 1-2 Tramadol per day and see how that does. What surprises me is how long the 50mg pill's effects last. One pill usually has positive effects for over 4-5 hours. I've taken Hydrocodone in the past and it seems to last a whopping 30 minutes. Plus the Hydrocodone almost made me "angry" when it's effects wore off. Seemed like maybe my body was craving more or something. I don't know much about opiates or any of that stuff. Not a drinker and have never smoked.
Just seems like this is the answer for me at least and, after the research I did last night and viewing some of the forums, I'd have to say Tramadol is becoming a widely-used med for this purpose. Hopefully, as you said, the pharmaceutical companies and doctors will get together and make it even better and widen it's intended usage(s).
Thanks again for your information and support. |
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BodyBldgBabe
Level 1
Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 3240
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Hey Ice,
Just following up to see if things have gotten better with your wife?
I was curious how old she is and the ages of the other wives that have experienced an onset of anxiety. I'm curious to see if theres a pattern and therefore this could possibly be a hormonal/natural thing such as menopause.
Hope all is well or at least getting better!
B-3 |
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sen say
Level 4
Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 5712
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Anyone that's ever been turned into a non-orgasming porn star due to meds find it easier to climax via masturbating? My wife and I 'knew' this couple where the guy could not climax to save his life from anything other than his own hand. We met another couple that had the same acquaintance and they had the same comment....and sorry to say this, but both the wife and the third party wife didn't really enjoy their time with Mr. No Climax....
Thanks,
Signed,
Perplexed |
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icecold
Level 2
Join date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 470
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BodyBldgBabe wrote:
Hey Ice,
Just following up to see if things have gotten better with your wife?
I was curious how old she is and the ages of the other wives that have experienced an onset of anxiety. I'm curious to see if theres a pattern and therefore this could possibly be a hormonal/natural thing such as menopause.
Hope all is well or at least getting better!
B-3
Wife is 34 and not overweight. She takes 2 thyroid medications, Lexapro and is on birth control medication but otherwise is pretty damn healthy.
Her anxiety is not hormonal and is probably largely genetic.
I actually bought a jack rabbit vibrator and some good lubricant. She came close several times but still no orgasm. At least I do not have to feel inferior to a piece of equipment I guess.
My wife actually admits now that she is getting really frustrated. I have been frustrated for awhile but she remained hopeful until just this week. It appears this problem is not going to be a temporary thing while on Lexapro. She still has the desire, but I notice it decreasing because of the no orgasm thing. My wife would always have orgasms before the Lexapro, and sometimes multiple orgasms.
She has agreed to try to add Welbutrin soon, and will start taking the Lexapro at night after sex. She may need to go off the Lexapro on the weekends occasionally for sex holidays, or decrease Lexapro dose if that does not work. There is always a chance she may need to go off it completely, but that would be sad and a last resort based on how much it helps her for anxiety.
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