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MAF14
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 256
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sorry but i needed to ask...
what exactly is "ramp sickmess". i'm about to start week three and i've noticed a cough and a little bit of a soar throat. it may be coincidence but im still a little curious. |
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myself1992
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2009
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 157
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'ramp sickness' is when you start getting sick due to the overtraining that is caused by the ramps... thus, the name. The medicine/prevention for ramp sickness is an increase in food and rest. Just keep going at it, you'll feel much better come supergrowth time |
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DH
Level 3
Join date: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 1507
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dont train to failure at this frequency. It'll about guarantee getting run down.
DH
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MAF14
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 256
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...i didnt mean to make this a "ramp sickness" thread i just really wanted to ask about it since i saw it mentioned in the original thread but it filled up. |
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MAF14
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 256
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DH wrote:
dont train to failure at this frequency. It'll about guarantee getting run down.
DH
thank you. i've been listening to your posts. i've been trying to keep one or two left in me during the set and i do feel likc the total work load has improved by not going to failure. |
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pepperman
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 66
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Just had two questions regarding the program.
1st: Individuals on this program seem to remain it for quite some time (I understand that it's kind of a concept rather than a program). Do most users eventually move back to a more traditional split with less bodypart/week frequency?
2nd: Involves exercise selection. How often do you change up the exercises in the program?
Thanks in advance. |
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pumped340
Level 0
Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1237
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DH wrote:
dont train to failure at this frequency. It'll about guarantee getting run down.
DH
I'm wondering why Modok had such great results then considering he did train to failure on each set for the 18 months he did it
Sorry if I am misquoting you but you did say the last set can be leaving no reps left in the tank right?
I'm guessing the below example by Willsee is pretty close to what you were saying as far as leaving a rep or 2 left but still dropping down in weight?
Willsee wrote:
If you could do 20 but stopped at 15 you would be leaving 5 reps in the hole. You are striving for near failure every set. You want to finish in the rep range for the day.
For me I would ramp up to my first work set of squats say 265 and get 14...I could probably get 15 but it would be close.
I know I wouldn't be able to get 13 reps of 265 for my next set so I drop the weight to 250 and I hit 13 reps. I might get 14 but it would be close since i struggled with 13.
After the 1st week you kind of get a feel of how to drop the weights for your following sets so that you stay in the rep range. Remember to try to hit the rep range as that is what determines the weight you use. About 25-30% of my sets I come up short as the rest periods change and I don't adjust accordingly.
Yea thats what I was saying about if you chose a weight where you could do 3x15 or so with the same weight, it seems like you'd be going relatively easy on the first 2 sets. What you explained was exactly what I was thinking, still leaving 0-1 reps in the hole depending on the set but dropping the weight as necessary to stay in the rep range which you'd probably still have to do (especially with higher rep sets) unless rest times were really long.
DH wrote:
Yes. it worked great because the volume of BBB really sets you up nicely for a good load. And the higher reps are placed after the load and the heavy workouts are later in the week.
DH
I noticed that too with the set up and am thinking/hoping it will help me with my AD results since I'll be switching from lowish volume 5/3/1 to high volume/frequency BBB. That's one reason I am/was wary about making it just 1 carb up meal, I guess it would be really big but still probably not more than 250-300g. |
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DH
Level 3
Join date: Oct 2002
Location:
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P340, a single meal will be just fine. Dont overanalyze this. Start with a meal and let yourself lean out to where you don't keep freaking out. Then slowly increase CHO loading from there. You're making it harder than it needs to with all the worry. Vince Gironda used to say that people who think/worry over this stuff almost always don't gain optimally. Your concern is burning "nervous reserves" and possibly releasing catecholamines. Chill and learn by doing. You can't make a mistake, really. Just keep telling yourself that till you believe it.
DH
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pumped340
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DH wrote:
P340, a single meal will be just fine. Dont overanalyze this. Start with a meal and let yourself lean out to where you don't keep freaking out. Then slowly increase CHO loading from there. You're making it harder than it needs to with all the worry. Vince Gironda used to say that people who think/worry over this stuff almost always don't gain optimally. Your concern is burning "nervous reserves" and possibly releasing catecholamines. Chill and learn by doing. You can't make a mistake, really. Just keep telling yourself that till you believe it.
DH
I'm going to assume you mean I can make a mistake, hopefully lol
I will try out the just 1 meal this weekend and possibly adjust in the future. I'm still wondering about my above question to Pauli though about how much/what to eat the rest of the day (mainly about fat intake).
As for "starting with one meal until I lean out", I can't see how I would lean out from that if I'm gaining weight, which is the goal on BBB of course. Hopefully this will help me to gain a higher muscle:fat ratio but I'm sure from experience that if I'm gaining weight I'll still be putting on some fat.
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matko5
Level 0
Join date: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 811
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hey guys what is BBB? can someone give me a quick overview? |
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B0B_Sacamano
Level 0
Join date: Sep 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 7
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Hey Guys,
I'm on second day of Supergrowth Phase, Ramp 1. I remember reading that it's natural for strength to drop at some point on this program. I noticed today I was significantly weaker than last week, I had to use the weight I was doing for 13-15 on volume days to do 10-12 reps. Any of you guys have a similiar experience? I'm hoping my strength really goes up next week because that's what I've read is supposed to happen.
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Zackgsc
Level 1
Join date: Sep 2008
Location: California, USA
Posts: 290
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I wouldn't worry about it to much, just make sure your resting and eating enough those could be a larger factor in what happened than the program. |
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grinder001
Level 0
Join date: Jul 2009
Location: South Africa
Posts: 75
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B0B_Sacamano wrote:
Hey Guys,
I'm on second day of Supergrowth Phase, Ramp 1. I remember reading that it's natural for strength to drop at some point on this program. I noticed today I was significantly weaker than last week, I had to use the weight I was doing for 13-15 on volume days to do 10-12 reps. Any of you guys have a similiar experience? I'm hoping my strength really goes up next week because that's what I've read is supposed to happen.
Yeah, your strength will drop off a bit, but that seams rather drastic. I think you might want to up calories and see how it turns out in the second and third weeks. When I did it years back, strength gains ceased, but never really dropped off and I even took each set to failure-but I must add I ate a shitload.
I also played around with upping carbs a bit when my strength gains stopped (I'm already consuming 400-450g protein a day so carbs and fat seamed to be the best place to start for adjustments)
I chose carbs, because of the severe glycogen depleting workouts and it worked wonders.
That was when I was doing the six day-I have decided to give this a try again, but I am quite a bit bigger and stronger now so the 4 day it is at the moment.
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B0B_Sacamano
Level 0
Join date: Sep 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 7
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grinder001 wrote:
B0B_Sacamano wrote:
Hey Guys,
I'm on second day of Supergrowth Phase, Ramp 1. I remember reading that it's natural for strength to drop at some point on this program. I noticed today I was significantly weaker than last week, I had to use the weight I was doing for 13-15 on volume days to do 10-12 reps. Any of you guys have a similiar experience? I'm hoping my strength really goes up next week because that's what I've read is supposed to happen.
Yeah, your strength will drop off a bit, but that seams rather drastic. I think you might want to up calories and see how it turns out in the second and third weeks. When I did it years back, strength gains ceased, but never really dropped off and I even took each set to failure-but I must add I ate a shitload.
I also played around with upping carbs a bit when my strength gains stopped (I'm already consuming 400-450g protein a day so carbs and fat seamed to be the best place to start for adjustments)
I chose carbs, because of the severe glycogen depleting workouts and it worked wonders.
That was when I was doing the six day-I have decided to give this a try again, but I am quite a bit bigger and stronger now so the 4 day it is at the moment.
I been ramping up my calories as well, I just got off a cut and didn't want to jump into high calories right away with a slower metab. I've been adding about 200 cals a week to my daily intake, i'm up to 3500 cals right now (I weigh 155 at 5'8).
Now that I think about it, it was only on a few lifts that my strength dropped. My squat stayed the same for the 10-12 rep range, we'll see how the rest of the week goes.
I noticed on Ramp 2 during the 3 week loading phase you hit full body everyday but you don't do any direct delt work. How did your shoulders respond to this?
Also, since legs will be getting hit everyday, what kind of exercise selection would you recommend?
My leg exercises right now are squat and trap bar deadlift, I felt like I should alternate with leg presses since I feel my lower back would get burnt out doing these everyday.
Thnx in advance! |
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grinder001
Level 0
Join date: Jul 2009
Location: South Africa
Posts: 75
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B0B_Sacamano wrote:
grinder001 wrote:
B0B_Sacamano wrote:
Hey Guys,
I'm on second day of Supergrowth Phase, Ramp 1. I remember reading that it's natural for strength to drop at some point on this program. I noticed today I was significantly weaker than last week, I had to use the weight I was doing for 13-15 on volume days to do 10-12 reps. Any of you guys have a similiar experience? I'm hoping my strength really goes up next week because that's what I've read is supposed to happen.
Yeah, your strength will drop off a bit, but that seams rather drastic. I think you might want to up calories and see how it turns out in the second and third weeks. When I did it years back, strength gains ceased, but never really dropped off and I even took each set to failure-but I must add I ate a shitload.
I also played around with upping carbs a bit when my strength gains stopped (I'm already consuming 400-450g protein a day so carbs and fat seamed to be the best place to start for adjustments)
I chose carbs, because of the severe glycogen depleting workouts and it worked wonders.
That was when I was doing the six day-I have decided to give this a try again, but I am quite a bit bigger and stronger now so the 4 day it is at the moment.
I been ramping up my calories as well, I just got off a cut and didn't want to jump into high calories right away with a slower metab. I've been adding about 200 cals a week to my daily intake, i'm up to 3500 cals right now (I weigh 155 at 5'8).
Now that I think about it, it was only on a few lifts that my strength dropped. My squat stayed the same for the 10-12 rep range, we'll see how the rest of the week goes.
I noticed on Ramp 2 during the 3 week loading phase you hit full body everyday but you don't do any direct delt work. How did your shoulders respond to this?
Also, since legs will be getting hit everyday, what kind of exercise selection would you recommend?
My leg exercises right now are squat and trap bar deadlift, I felt like I should alternate with leg presses since I feel my lower back would get burnt out doing these everyday.
Thnx in advance!
Well I actually appreciated the rest that my shoulders received (although back and chest work still hit them indirectly)-lots of pressing in this program. Don't stress about this-it's only for a short while and will most probably do you good. I did quads on day 1 3 5 and hams on 2 4 6 for thighs. It went something like this:
Day 1
DB Rows 3x13-15 (150s)
Flat Chest Press 3x13-15 (150s)
Hack Squats 3x13-15 (150s)
Seated Calves 3x13-15 (150s)
Preacher Curls 3x13-15 (150s)
Day 2
Incline Press 3x13-15 (150s)
Wide Rack Chins 3x13-15 (150s)
Laying Leg Curls 3x13-15 (150s)
Standing Calves 3x13-15 (150s)
Behind Neck Extensions 2x13-15 (150s)
Day 3
Dead lifts 3x10-12 (150s)
Flat Chest Press 3x10-12 (150s)
Drag Curls 3x10-12 (150s)
Seated Calves 3x10-12 (150s)
Leg Press 3x10-12 (150s)
Day 4
Incline Press 3x10-12 (150s)
Wide BN Pulldowns 3x8-10 (150s)
Dead Skull Crushers 2x10-12 (150s)
Standing Leg Curls 3x10-12 (150s)
Standing Calves 3x10-12 (150s)
Day 5
DB Rows 3x8-10 (150s)
Chest Dips 3x8-10 (150s)
Squats 3x8-10 (150s)
Seated Calves 3x8-10 (150s)
Incline DB Curls 2x8-10 (150s)
Day 6
Incline Press 3x8-10 (150s)
Close Grip Rack Chins 3x8-10 (150s)
Seated Leg Curls 3x8-10 (150s)
CG Bench Press 2x8-10 (150s)
Standing Calves 3x8-10 (150s)
In retrospect I might have been better off by doing some isolation exercises for chest here and there for this ramp, but I think you will be fine for now with your current level of developement. I actually didn't do abs on this program-instead I did hams. (I have very strong abs because of years of wrestling etc. so I neglect them alot-which isn't the cleverest thing to do, haha.)
The lowerback issue was also resolved by this layout to a great extend IME...
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MAF14
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 256
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i thought strength should drop off during the ramp, not supergrowth? or did i get those mixed up? |
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Zackgsc
Level 1
Join date: Sep 2008
Location: California, USA
Posts: 290
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My back is still screwed up, I tried a few more days at the gym last week and after not being able to shovel dirt at work yesterday because it hurt to much to bend over I decided im just going to take a week off.
I'm wondering what this is going to do to the program considering the whole point is to push yourself to where your over training... and a week off is surely going to effect that.
Oh well I may just do ramp 1 week 3 over again when i hit it again next week.. or I may just start off at my last workout the 4th day of the 3rd ramp.
Any idea's on? |
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Roundhead
Level 0
Join date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 313
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Is there a reason for the link between the AD and BBB? Is it derived from the chapter on diet and the high fat/low carb section? I always thought keto diets were more effective for cutting than bulking on a routine like BBB. Personally I eat fairly clean but basically eat huge amounts of everything, but I have that kind of metabolism.
On the subject of "ramp sickness" I'm a little concerned- I'm a lecturer and at this time of year I am already catching every damn virus the students bring back with them. |
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pumped340
Level 0
Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1237
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grinder001 wrote:
B0B_Sacamano wrote:
Hey Guys,
I'm on second day of Supergrowth Phase, Ramp 1. I remember reading that it's natural for strength to drop at some point on this program. I noticed today I was significantly weaker than last week, I had to use the weight I was doing for 13-15 on volume days to do 10-12 reps. Any of you guys have a similiar experience? I'm hoping my strength really goes up next week because that's what I've read is supposed to happen.
Yeah, your strength will drop off a bit, but that seams rather drastic. I think you might want to up calories and see how it turns out in the second and third weeks. When I did it years back, strength gains ceased, but never really dropped off and I even took each set to failure-but I must add I ate a shitload.
I also played around with upping carbs a bit when my strength gains stopped (I'm already consuming 400-450g protein a day so carbs and fat seamed to be the best place to start for adjustments)
I chose carbs, because of the severe glycogen depleting workouts and it worked wonders.
That was when I was doing the six day-I have decided to give this a try again, but I am quite a bit bigger and stronger now so the 4 day it is at the moment.
Mind sharing your results from when you did it? Before and after upping calories, as in were results good even though strength didn't go up?
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B0B_Sacamano
Level 0
Join date: Sep 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 7
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grinder001 wrote:
B0B_Sacamano wrote:
grinder001 wrote:
B0B_Sacamano wrote:
Hey Guys,
I'm on second day of Supergrowth Phase, Ramp 1. I remember reading that it's natural for strength to drop at some point on this program. I noticed today I was significantly weaker than last week, I had to use the weight I was doing for 13-15 on volume days to do 10-12 reps. Any of you guys have a similiar experience? I'm hoping my strength really goes up next week because that's what I've read is supposed to happen.
Yeah, your strength will drop off a bit, but that seams rather drastic. I think you might want to up calories and see how it turns out in the second and third weeks. When I did it years back, strength gains ceased, but never really dropped off and I even took each set to failure-but I must add I ate a shitload.
I also played around with upping carbs a bit when my strength gains stopped (I'm already consuming 400-450g protein a day so carbs and fat seamed to be the best place to start for adjustments)
I chose carbs, because of the severe glycogen depleting workouts and it worked wonders.
That was when I was doing the six day-I have decided to give this a try again, but I am quite a bit bigger and stronger now so the 4 day it is at the moment.
I been ramping up my calories as well, I just got off a cut and didn't want to jump into high calories right away with a slower metab. I've been adding about 200 cals a week to my daily intake, i'm up to 3500 cals right now (I weigh 155 at 5'8).
Now that I think about it, it was only on a few lifts that my strength dropped. My squat stayed the same for the 10-12 rep range, we'll see how the rest of the week goes.
I noticed on Ramp 2 during the 3 week loading phase you hit full body everyday but you don't do any direct delt work. How did your shoulders respond to this?
Also, since legs will be getting hit everyday, what kind of exercise selection would you recommend?
My leg exercises right now are squat and trap bar deadlift, I felt like I should alternate with leg presses since I feel my lower back would get burnt out doing these everyday.
Thnx in advance!
Well I actually appreciated the rest that my shoulders received (although back and chest work still hit them indirectly)-lots of pressing in this program. Don't stress about this-it's only for a short while and will most probably do you good. I did quads on day 1 3 5 and hams on 2 4 6 for thighs. It went something like this:
Day 1
DB Rows 3x13-15 (150s)
Flat Chest Press 3x13-15 (150s)
Hack Squats 3x13-15 (150s)
Seated Calves 3x13-15 (150s)
Preacher Curls 3x13-15 (150s)
Day 2
Incline Press 3x13-15 (150s)
Wide Rack Chins 3x13-15 (150s)
Laying Leg Curls 3x13-15 (150s)
Standing Calves 3x13-15 (150s)
Behind Neck Extensions 2x13-15 (150s)
Day 3
Dead lifts 3x10-12 (150s)
Flat Chest Press 3x10-12 (150s)
Drag Curls 3x10-12 (150s)
Seated Calves 3x10-12 (150s)
Leg Press 3x10-12 (150s)
Day 4
Incline Press 3x10-12 (150s)
Wide BN Pulldowns 3x8-10 (150s)
Dead Skull Crushers 2x10-12 (150s)
Standing Leg Curls 3x10-12 (150s)
Standing Calves 3x10-12 (150s)
Day 5
DB Rows 3x8-10 (150s)
Chest Dips 3x8-10 (150s)
Squats 3x8-10 (150s)
Seated Calves 3x8-10 (150s)
Incline DB Curls 2x8-10 (150s)
Day 6
Incline Press 3x8-10 (150s)
Close Grip Rack Chins 3x8-10 (150s)
Seated Leg Curls 3x8-10 (150s)
CG Bench Press 2x8-10 (150s)
Standing Calves 3x8-10 (150s)
In retrospect I might have been better off by doing some isolation exercises for chest here and there for this ramp, but I think you will be fine for now with your current level of developement. I actually didn't do abs on this program-instead I did hams. (I have very strong abs because of years of wrestling etc. so I neglect them alot-which isn't the cleverest thing to do, haha.)
The lowerback issue was also resolved by this layout to a great extend IME...
Ya, I know the delts will get hit from back/chest work, it's just that my shoulders are my favorite bodypart to work on =[... oh well haha
Thanks for the indepth response. I will probably do my split similar to yours with a little bit more emphasis on isolation since everything will be getting hit so frequent . Wrestling definitely builds up your core, wrestling was the most exhausting part of my MMA training... it's brutal on the lungs as well.
I'm glad i'm in super |
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B0B_Sacamano
Level 0
Join date: Sep 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 7
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MAF14 wrote:
i thought strength should drop off during the ramp, not supergrowth? or did i get those mixed up?
That's what I thought as well. I read in the other thread that your strength really takes off in the second week of supergrowth. I remember on 3rd week of the hyperphase I was constantly sleepy and I would take lots of naps, soo maybe it delayed my over training slightly.
I just barely started the 1st week of supergrowth, i'm keeping a journal of everything. I'll keep everyone posted on how things turnout. |
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grinder001
Level 0
Join date: Jul 2009
Location: South Africa
Posts: 75
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Mind sharing your results from when you did it? Before and after upping calories, as in were results good even though strength didn't go up?
Well the reason I upped carbs was to continue gaining strength -so yeah it obviously worked because I started gaining strength again.
Results will always be good with surplus calories and strength gain so that is always my goal-when I stall I eat more-simple as that.
If I upped fat it might have worked as well-carbs just seamed the quickest route for me- I was on the AD at the time with full 5 day no carbs and weekend carb ups.
I then changed to a timed carb diet (where carbs are only consumed directly after workout and then one meal there after) after reading about how lots of guys over at ironaddicts lost performance later in the week because of the full AD. They then changed to a TCD and were gaining again without much fat gain at all.
It worked great for me and I still eat like that to this day...
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