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crod266
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Join date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, USA
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I made this thread basically to point out the things that are wrong with the ifbb. I have heard from various sources including some authors on this site saying that pro bb is in a wrong way now. I have heard that there so so many problems with the ifbb but im not really sure what those are. I made this thread because I want to know and I dont. I mean everyone knows the one problem. Everything is about mass and not symmetry. I totallt argree but I have heard the pro bb is acually one of the most corrupt sports there is. That there is alot that goes on behind the scenes thats very bad. I would acually really like for prof x to shine some light on this thread because I know he will have something good to say, |
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SSC
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It's hard to make a good debate without any sort of real information or facts about why professional bodybuilding "is bad." Before making outrageous claims, justify why people say that it's a corrupt sport. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it sounds like you're trying to stir discussion without any sort of platform to jump off from. |
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crod266
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O kno im trying to stir discussion because ive heard all these claims and dont know if its true. All the things I said I have heard in the past so i made this thread to discuss which of those were true. |
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Christian Thibaudeau
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crod266 wrote:
O kno im trying to stir discussion because ive heard all these claims and dont know if its true. All the things I said I have heard in the past so i made this thread to discuss which of those were true.
It's kinda pointless to discuss such issues.
1. Unless you are in the pro bodybuilding world yourself you cannot know exactly what is going on. People like to start rumors and act like old chatty Cathy. As they say: believe none of what you ear and half of what you see.
2. There is bound to be some issues... but they are probably no worse than those found in any other sports. Basketball has its issues (ref scandal, recreational drug use, violence, etc.), football has its own too (Spygate, the myriad of DUI arrests, etc.) and the same will hold true for any other sport.
I think that it's stupid to start a gossip thread of this subject. |
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rainjack
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
O kno im trying to stir discussion because ive heard all these claims and dont know if its true. All the things I said I have heard in the past so i made this thread to discuss which of those were true.
It's kinda pointless to discuss such issues.
1. Unless you are in the pro bodybuilding world yourself you cannot know exactly what is going on. People like to start rumors and act like old chatty Cathy. As they say: believe none of what you ear and half of what you see.
2. There is bound to be some issues... but they are probably no worse than those found in any other sports. Basketball has its issues (ref scandal, recreational drug use, violence, etc.), football has its own too (Spygate, the myriad of DUI arrests, etc.) and the same will hold true for any other sport.
I think that it's stupid to start a gossip thread of this subject.
I don't know when the chatter got started, but I've been hearing about trouble in the IFBB since the 80's.
ABout the only thing that will turn pro bodybuilding around would be the death of Joe Weider, but the fucker just won't die.
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The Mighty Stu
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Ah, Wieder doesn't have anything to do with anything anymore. Sure contests were rigged in the past (RIck Wayne even wrote about it years after the events), but you're always going to have the guys who didn't win complain about 'politics'. Besides, just the nature of the sport itself is subjective. All the top IFBB guys have basically the same physiques (I';ve heard people theorize that the drugs are responsible to the extent that we see now). I've seen natural competitors who actually develope very different builds, similar to the competitors of yesteryear. Will any real drug testing ever happen on a pro stage? Of course not. Why would anyone pay to see some dude who's 5'10, 185 lbs when you can just look around your local gym... there's no spectacle involved, no novelty.
S
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crod266
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
O kno im trying to stir discussion because ive heard all these claims and dont know if its true. All the things I said I have heard in the past so i made this thread to discuss which of those were true.
It's kinda pointless to discuss such issues.
1. Unless you are in the pro bodybuilding world yourself you cannot know exactly what is going on. People like to start rumors and act like old chatty Cathy. As they say: believe none of what you ear and half of what you see.
2. There is bound to be some issues... but they are probably no worse than those found in any other sports. Basketball has its issues (ref scandal, recreational drug use, violence, etc.), football has its own too (Spygate, the myriad of DUI arrests, etc.) and the same will hold true for any other sport.
I think that it's stupid to start a gossip thread of this subject.
you do make a good point thib but also Im sure there are many people that know much more than me about the ifbb that arent in the ifbb. Also I like to to follow who wins and i buy the magazines and I bascially follow it, then I hear all this and wanted to know how legit it acually is
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crod266
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Posts: 1729
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The Mighty Stu wrote:
Ah, Wieder doesn't have anything to do with anything anymore. Even the Olympia is now sponsored by another supplement company 'm--tech'. Sure contests were rigged in the past (RIck Wayne even wrote about it years after the events), but you're always going to have the guys who didn't win complain about 'politics'. Besides, just the nature of the sport itself is subjective. All the top IFBB guys have basically the same physiques (I';ve heard people theorize that the drugs are responsible to the extent that we see now). I've seen natural competitors who actually develope very different builds, similar to the competitors of yesteryear. Will any real drug testing ever happen on a pro stage? Of course not. Why would anyone pay to see some dude who's 5'10, 185 lbs when you can just look around your local gym... there's no spectacle involved, no novelty.
S
Yea rick wayne wrote a book and in there it says a bunch of stuff about the pros. He basically says all the problems. He even said once that arnold one because him and wieder were like connected. PRobably not true but it was said. You are also right about the physiques being the same. SOme of the guys look almost identical, but not all
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Professor X
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Join date: Oct 2002
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crod266 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
O kno im trying to stir discussion because ive heard all these claims and dont know if its true. All the things I said I have heard in the past so i made this thread to discuss which of those were true.
It's kinda pointless to discuss such issues.
1. Unless you are in the pro bodybuilding world yourself you cannot know exactly what is going on. People like to start rumors and act like old chatty Cathy. As they say: believe none of what you ear and half of what you see.
2. There is bound to be some issues... but they are probably no worse than those found in any other sports. Basketball has its issues (ref scandal, recreational drug use, violence, etc.), football has its own too (Spygate, the myriad of DUI arrests, etc.) and the same will hold true for any other sport.
I think that it's stupid to start a gossip thread of this subject.
you do make a good point thib but also Im sure there are many people that know much more than me about the ifbb that arent in the ifbb. Also I like to to follow who wins and i buy the magazines and I bascially follow it, then I hear all this and wanted to know how legit it acually is
Gee, if they are not IN the IFBB, then anything they hear is hear-say and not much else.
Rumors can cause damage and spreading them as if they are fact should be avoided. Why engage in it?
There are skeletons in the closet of every major sport. This has to be the only activity where people act as if every negative thing they hear actually DEFINES the sport of bodybuilding. |
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Christian Thibaudeau
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crod266 wrote:
Also I like to to follow who wins and i buy the magazines and I bascially follow it, then I hear all this and wanted to know how legit it acually is
It's as legit as any other sport judged subjectively. Figure skating, gymnastics, diving, synchronized swimming, etc.
When you introduce the human factor into judging you are bound to have diverging opinions on who the winner should be, even if you have judging guidelines. |
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crod266
Level 4
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Posts: 1729
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
Also I like to to follow who wins and i buy the magazines and I bascially follow it, then I hear all this and wanted to know how legit it acually is
It's as legit as any other sport judged subjectively. Figure skating, gymnastics, diving, synchronized swimming, etc.
When you introduce the human factor into judging you are bound to have diverging opinions on who the winner should be, even if you have judging guidelines.
This is true, might I ask was there anything you didnt like when you competed?
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Christian Thibaudeau
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crod266 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
Also I like to to follow who wins and i buy the magazines and I bascially follow it, then I hear all this and wanted to know how legit it acually is
It's as legit as any other sport judged subjectively. Figure skating, gymnastics, diving, synchronized swimming, etc.
When you introduce the human factor into judging you are bound to have diverging opinions on who the winner should be, even if you have judging guidelines.
This is true, might I ask was there anything you didnt like when you competed?
Competing.
I love the training...
I take pride in the discipline needed to diet successfully ...
I love the body comp results, seeing your body change every week...
I hate the actual act of competing on a bodybuilding stage.
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Tiribulus
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Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 8267
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There have been charges of fixing for marketing purposes and controversial victories going all the way back to Arnold and Sergio. I don't really care one way or the other. |
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crod266
Level 4
Join date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 1729
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
Also I like to to follow who wins and i buy the magazines and I bascially follow it, then I hear all this and wanted to know how legit it acually is
It's as legit as any other sport judged subjectively. Figure skating, gymnastics, diving, synchronized swimming, etc.
When you introduce the human factor into judging you are bound to have diverging opinions on who the winner should be, even if you have judging guidelines.
This is true, might I ask was there anything you didnt like when you competed?
Competing.
I love the training...
I take pride in the discipline needed to diet successfully ...
I love the body comp results, seeing your body change every week...
I hate the actual act of competing on a bodybuilding stage.
I see, was there any reason behind hating to acually be on the stage or it just wasnt the thing for you.
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Christian Thibaudeau
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Posts: 16500
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crod266 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
crod266 wrote:
Also I like to to follow who wins and i buy the magazines and I bascially follow it, then I hear all this and wanted to know how legit it acually is
It's as legit as any other sport judged subjectively. Figure skating, gymnastics, diving, synchronized swimming, etc.
When you introduce the human factor into judging you are bound to have diverging opinions on who the winner should be, even if you have judging guidelines.
This is true, might I ask was there anything you didnt like when you competed?
Competing.
I love the training...
I take pride in the discipline needed to diet successfully ...
I love the body comp results, seeing your body change every week...
I hate the actual act of competing on a bodybuilding stage.
I see, was there any reason behind hating to acually be on the stage or it just wasnt the thing for you.
Didn't you already ask this question 2-3 times? I'm a performance guy, I was ''raised'' as a football player then as a competitive olympic lifter. Performance is what I really like. I honestly don't care for bodybuilding as a competitive event AT ALL.
I like to get in shape and know how to prep bodybuilders (I am currently working with several high level ones); I also respect what it takes to step on stage. But I really do not like competitive bodybuilding which doesn't mean that I do not like bodybuilders. There is a difference. I admire the physique of the top guys and know how much hard work goes into building this kind of physique.
But to me, seeing 15 men posing in speedos is boring.
On the other hand, posing in a speedo in front of 800 cheering men is not my own idea of a fun afternoon. |
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crod266
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Location: New York, USA
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On the other hand, posing in a speedo in front of 800 cheering men is not my own idea of a fun afternoon.[/quote]
O come on you know every single straight guy likes this haha and ok I totallt understand your point of view thankyou for the answer |
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Scott M
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Join date: Aug 2005
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 3786
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crod266,
I think the problem here is this isn't the type of board that has all that much interest in pro bodybuilding, especially the seedy side of things. Places like getbig are full of the hatred/rumors/gossip of the sport and that place really is the scum of all boards as far as I'm concerned.
The people that like bodybuilding here(whether competing or just spectating) are probably going to want to talk about the positive aspects of the sport.
New talent like Phil Heath, Dennis Wolf, can someone dethrone Jay Cutler this year etc. If you want to hear about drug use scandals and Craig Titus type stuff this probably isn't the place you'll find it. |
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Christian Thibaudeau
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Scott M wrote:
If you want to hear about drug use scandals and Craig Titus type stuff this probably isn't the place you'll find it.
The funny thing is that most sports are just as bad as bodybuilding when it comes to drug use. In fact, the sports with the biggest drug problem are those that you would suspect the least... 10 years ago, who would have thought that cycling had such a drug culture?!
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NeelyDan
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Join date: Mar 2008
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 1466
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For some reason the culture of hockey players has never really been geared (get it?) towards this trend. |
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Christian Thibaudeau
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NeelyDan wrote:
For some reason the culture of hockey players has never really been geared (get it?) towards this trend.
That's entirely true. I work with several NHL pros and most of them really wouldn't even think about using most types of performance-enhancing drugs. Well, stimulants ARE popular with them (but they mostly use Sudafed) but hardcore stuff like steroids, hGH are really a non-issue with most of these players... save for a few enforces, who are now few and far between in the new NHL.
I think that the lack of popularity of PED in hockey is more related to a psychological issue than a physical one: most hockey players actually do not want to gain weight. The pros somehow believe that they have an ideal ''playing weight'' and do not want to get above that, believing that it will make them slow and less agile.
For example, Eric Belanger (from the Minnesota Wild) is leaving for the NHLPA convention in Rome next week. For the past 2 weeks I put him on a planned overtraining schedule.
Basically he did an inhumane training volume (track and weights 5 days per week, energy systems work too) to drive him into the ground. So next week (tomorrow) when he will be unable to train or follow his diet instead of detraining he will surcompensate.
Before he left he was 188lbs on 5'11'' (down from 192lbs at the beginning of the planned overtraining period) and I told him that when he gets back he will be 195 and about 10% stronger (because of the surcompensation effect).
He almost freaked out because he sees his ideal playing weight as being 190-192. I just thought that is was REALLY funny :) |
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FatMom
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Location: Quebec, CAN
Posts: 118
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Oh wow, I didnt noticed that this is not your Q&A thread, oops |
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Christian Thibaudeau
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FatMom wrote:
Coach, I only have access to one not so good supermarket, so my food choices are very limited..
is canned wild salmon and canned sardine are an OK protein source? I can't even get horse and bison meat, wich I used to have...
and is it true that AAA grade beef is actually grass feed beef from alberta?
I have a Q&A thread for you to ask questions. This is the wrong thread. |
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crod266
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Posts: 1729
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
For some reason the culture of hockey players has never really been geared (get it?) towards this trend.
That's entirely true. I work with several NHL pros and most of them really wouldn't even think about using most types of performance-enhancing drugs.
Well, stimulants ARE popular with them (but they mostly use Sudafed) but hardcore stuff like steroids, hGH are really a non-issue with most of these players... save for a few enforces, who are now few and far between in the new NHL.
I think that the lack of popularity of PED in hockey is more related to a psychological issue than a physical one: most hockey players actually do not want to gain weight. The pros somehow believe that they have an ideal ''playing weight'' and do not want to get above that, believing that it will make them slow and less agile.
For example, Eric Belanger (from the Minnesota Wild) is leaving for the NHLPA convention in Rome next week. For the past 2 weeks I put him on a planned overtraining schedule.
Basically he did an inhumane training volume (track and weights 5 days per week, energy systems work too) to drive him into the ground. So next week (tomorrow) when he will be unable to train or follow his diet instead of detraining he will surcompensate.
Before he left he was 188lbs on 5'11'' (down from 192lbs at the beginning of the planned overtraining period) and I told him that when he gets back he will be 195 and about 10% stronger (because of the surcompensation effect).
He almost freaked out because he sees his ideal playing weight as being 190-192. I just thought that is was REALLY funny :)
haha I nevr knew nhl players thought that way. So nhl players take stim before a game, hmm im suprised. I have tried it before a hockey game before but never thought the pros did it.What nhl players have you trained thib, just out of curiousity? Also isnt sudafed like a cold medicine?
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NeelyDan
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Join date: Mar 2008
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 1466
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
For some reason the culture of hockey players has never really been geared (get it?) towards this trend.
That's entirely true. I work with several NHL pros and most of them really wouldn't even think about using most types of performance-enhancing drugs. Well, stimulants ARE popular with them (but they mostly use Sudafed) but hardcore stuff like steroids, hGH are really a non-issue with most of these players... save for a few enforces, who are now few and far between in the new NHL.
I think that the lack of popularity of PED in hockey is more related to a psychological issue than a physical one: most hockey players actually do not want to gain weight. The pros somehow believe that they have an ideal ''playing weight'' and do not want to get above that, believing that it will make them slow and less agile.
For example, Eric Belanger (from the Minnesota Wild) is leaving for the NHLPA convention in Rome next week. For the past 2 weeks I put him on a planned overtraining schedule.
Basically he did an inhumane training volume (track and weights 5 days per week, energy systems work too) to drive him into the ground. So next week (tomorrow) when he will be unable to train or follow his diet instead of detraining he will surcompensate.
Before he left he was 188lbs on 5'11'' (down from 192lbs at the beginning of the planned overtraining period) and I told him that when he gets back he will be 195 and about 10% stronger (because of the surcompensation effect).
He almost freaked out because he sees his ideal playing weight as being 190-192. I just thought that is was REALLY funny :)
Not to hijack the OP's thread, but you must train Belanger for explosive speed as a primary objective, that little bugger is fast.
Edit - also, Laraque is in la belle province now...he'd be an interesting client, I'd wager he's one of the strongest guys in the league.
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Christian Thibaudeau
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NeelyDan wrote:
Not to hijack the OP's thread, but you must train Belanger for explosive speed as a primary objective, that little bugger is fast.
One of the most explosive guy I've seen. Seeing this guy do plyometric drills is something that is hard to believe! When he was playing in LA, guys would actually stop training to watch him do his plyo!
His brother is the same way. He is a goalie and one of the best pure athlete that I've trained. Sadly he peaked late in his hockey career and never got his chance in the NHL. But the guy had the biggest VMO I've ever seen! |
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