My test is normal (548), but i'm easily fatigued, and want to recover easier from exercise. i have no health problems. will androgel help me, and if so what dose should i take?

pearson wrote:
My test is normal (548), but i'm easily fatigued, and want to recover easier from exercise. i have no health problems. will androgel help me, and if so what dose should i take?

A defenit maybe. The problem is that nobody knows what "normal" really is. It is a personal number. I went from 294 to 892 and feel much better. With a number of 548, you may find trouble getting a script.

I think it was TC who had the best suggestion: get your levels checked when you are 25, and use that as a benchmark for the rest of your life.

548 is no worse than low/normal on any scale I've seen so you'll probably have a lot of trouble getting a doctor to give you a script. Depending on how old you are, it could very well be normal/normal as my endo only wanted to target my level at 500 using HRT (up from 227 yikes!).

probably should've clarified...i can definitely get a script, my docs are willing. they're doing all they can to help me recover from this fatigue.

pearson wrote:
probably should've clarified...i can definitely get a script, my docs are willing. they're doing all they can to help me recover from this fatigue.

Oh, that's different.

Androgel is HRT which will result in suppression of your own exogenous testosterone production; so, you will drop to 0.0 ng/dl and only have the testosterone supplied via the Androgel to sustain you. 5 grams/daily will likely leave you with less average serum testosterone than you have naturally, so you should use 10 grams/daily which ought to get you up to around 800 ng/dl average level. That's an average/typical response though, I personally couldn't absorb androgel well at all and felt worse than my original 227 ng/dl.

Are you sure you want to do this? HRT is for life, though if you ever want to start you could run a PCT to get back to where you are now.

Another problem with HRT is that since you're adding the androgel on top of your own exogenous production, you're going to go supraphysiological/feel great until your own production shuts down at which time you'll notice the difference and not be as happy as when you first started.

I'm now on test cypionate and I've found it to be wayyyy better than Androgel or Testim. The weekly shot is much easier to administer and another advantage is that dosage adjustment is far easier than using the testosterone based gels. Just some food for thought since you've got a cooperative doctor to work with; you might want to go to injections.

deadlifter405 wrote:

Androgel is HRT which will result in suppression of your own exogenous testosterone production; so, you will drop to 0.0 ng/dl and only have the testosterone supplied via the Androgel to sustain you. 5 grams/daily will likely leave you with less average serum testosterone than you have naturally, so you should use 10 grams/daily which ought to get you up to around 800 ng/dl average level. That's an average/typical response though, I personally couldn't absorb androgel well at all and felt worse than my original 227 ng/dl.

Are you sure you want to do this? HRT is for life, though if you ever want to start you could run a PCT to get back to where you are now.

Another problem with HRT is that since you're adding the androgel on top of your own exogenous production, you're going to go supraphysiological/feel great until your own production shuts down at which time you'll notice the difference and not be as happy as when you first started.

I'm now on test cypionate and I've found it to be wayyyy better than Androgel or Testim. The weekly shot is much easier to administer and another advantage is that dosage adjustment is far easier than using the testosterone based gels. Just some food for thought since you've got a cooperative doctor to work with; you might want to go to injections.

would it help if i cycled on and off the test, using clomid on the off-weeks?

Apologies for asking the obvious- have you tried max doses of the T-boosters from this site? Both Alpha Male and TRIBEX have just been ramped up.

I used Androgel for HRT for about 10 months. Please realize that the gel was designed to bring us low-T guys up to muster. Using it for 'enhancement' will simply lead to long term shutdown of your natural T.

If you do this, you'll need to treat it as a mild cycle of steroids. That means you have to follow the protocols outlined in the Steroids section. If you don't, you'll be WORSE off than now.

Why not try the new Alpha Male? It may get your T up to high normal. Then, failing that get your thyroid checked and have an arginine-infusion GH test.

HH

Has anyone heard about the status of a new testosterone nasal spray that's been working its way through the FDA?

Hi - I am new to the site. I went to my doc 7 mos. ago for depression and anxiety which seemed to come on very quickly but was preceded by months and months of constant tiredness and foggy head.
Libido is maybe slightly diminished but
mood / foggy head is my main problem.
My doc tested for low T - my numbers are:
free T .. 9.7
total T .. 234
Is this considered hypogonadal?
she prescribed Androgel once a day 5g.
my question : can anyone share their experience with Androgel as it has affected mood/ anxiety / depression/
and the foggy, full head feeling ?
I have not started using it yet and I
would like to know what to expect and specifically - how long for the mood
improvement, if any. Thanks for this site - I have learned more about low T
from these posts than from anywhere else.

PV Wolf wrote:
Hi - I am new to the site. I went to my doc 7 mos. ago for depression and anxiety which seemed to come on very quickly but was preceded by months and months of constant tiredness and foggy head.
Libido is maybe slightly diminished but
mood / foggy head is my main problem.
My doc tested for low T - my numbers are:
free T .. 9.7
total T .. 234
Is this considered hypogonadal?
she prescribed Androgel once a day 5g.
my question : can anyone share their experience with Androgel as it has affected mood/ anxiety / depression/
and the foggy, full head feeling ?
I have not started using it yet and I
would like to know what to expect and specifically - how long for the mood
improvement, if any. Thanks for this site - I have learned more about low T
from these posts than from anywhere else.


I was in the same boat with depression and anxiety. My levels were nearly the same as yours prior to starting Androgel.

I am now taking 7.5 mg daily and feel MUCH better. My overall sense of well being (not to mention libido) is much better as a result of Androgel. I suspect you will feel much better as well.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the reply ! I am always a little wary of anything pharmaceutical
but I think its time to address this thing head on. Could I ask when you started to notice improvement in your mood symptoms ?

thanks again !

PV Wolf wrote:
Thanks for the reply ! I am always a little wary of anything pharmaceutical
but I think its time to address this thing head on. Could I ask when you started to notice improvement in your mood symptoms ?

thanks again !



I noticed a remarkable improvement after only two days.

PV Wolf wrote:
Thanks for the reply ! I am always a little wary of anything pharmaceutical
but I think its time to address this thing head on. Could I ask when you started to notice improvement in your mood symptoms ?

thanks again !


Thats Great ! I hope I can get the same results. I'll post again soon. Many thanks for your responses.

I just received the results back today from my most recent blood test:

Total Testosterone: 322
Free: 7 on a reference scale of 8 - 24 (I think)

I'm 37 and have been feeling terrible for years now. I start the Androgel this week so I'll keep you updated on my results.

Frankly, with those numbers I'm not even motivated to work out at this time knowing that my levels are so low. My gains in the gym are virtually nonexistent no matter what I eat or what I do. What compelled me more than anything is that I have a family now and I don't want to be the dad that is glued to the couch. I do wish that that I took care of this years ago.

Best wishes to all.

Androgel is a great place to start wrt HRT. It will help about 95% of users.

If that fails, try Testim.

If that fails, your skin is too thick (guilty) and you have to do shots.

(Note: people are working on nasal sprays and there is a product you put against your cheek, inside the mouth.)

I just started the 5g Androgel this morning and hoping for some positive
results. Question : Does T replacement help with improving sleep ? Early waking has been one of my main probs.

thanks

PV Wolf wrote:
Question : Does T replacement help with improving sleep ? Early waking has been one of my main probs.



A qualified "yes". When I first started with 5 grams Testim then eventually 10 grams Testim I was a little more antsey the first couple of days and didn't sleep as well as normally. After my body got used to the higher T-level I did sleep more soundly than before starting HRT. Now that I'm on T-cyp weekly injections, I can sleep like a log until that miserably alarm clock goes off.

How about the moderate use of alcohol with Androgel ? Will a few beers 3 or 4 times a week negate the benefits ?

PV Wolf wrote:
How about the moderate use of alcohol with Androgel ? Will a few beers 3 or 4 times a week negate the benefits ?

That's the $64,000 question, and I'd like to hear some additional answers too guys.

IMO, "a few beers" 3-4 times per week is too much, at least for me. You still get all the bad effects of alcohol consumption while on HRT and it certainly doesn't seem to give you any advantage on warding off/recovering from those bad effects. I'm a hardcore lifter and my gains would grind to a stop if I drank that often. But, I've always been a hardgainer anyway. With HRT I'm able to recover a lot better from my workouts and that has a very positive effect.

You'd think you'd be better off with HRT since alcohol suppresses Testerone production, and why would you care about that since you're now getting all your T externally and your actual T level doesn't suffer for it. I believe that is a true statement and those on HRT are better off than normal guys who have to watch what they do to their natural T production. What alcohol does to me is make it hard/impossible to workout hard the next day so even if I can still recover better, I'm not able to apply the proper training stimulus.

Still, I try to limit myself to 1-2 times per week at most(and sometimes 0 times per week for extended periods) and try to avoid doing it the night before what I plan to be a hard workout. It's always a good idea to plan a day off the next day if you can.

my test levels are normal....will my natural T production shut down, even if i cycle on and off androgel, using clomid on the off weeks?

gdm wrote:
I just received the results back today from my most recent blood test:

Total Testosterone: 322
Free: 7 on a reference scale of 8 - 24 (I think)

I'm 37 and have been feeling terrible for years now. I start the Androgel this week so I'll keep you updated on my results.

Frankly, with those numbers I'm not even motivated to work out at this time knowing that my levels are so low. My gains in the gym are virtually nonexistent no matter what I eat or what I do. What compelled me more than anything is that I have a family now and I don't want to be the dad that is glued to the couch. I do wish that that I took care of this years ago.

Best wishes to all.

Hello - can you share what your symptoms
are ? It sounds like you are looking at T replacement as a way of improving your overall feelings of health, rather than just for results in the gym, which is my situation as well. I have felt tired,
foggy, and sort of constantly hungover
for a long time now and just started Androgel. My #s were similar to yours.
I'm hoping for the energy and mood boost
that some people have reported.

best to all -

PV Wolf wrote:
gdm wrote:
I just received the results back today from my most recent blood test:

Total Testosterone: 322
Free: 7 on a reference scale of 8 - 24 (I think)

I'm 37 and have been feeling terrible for years now. I start the Androgel this week so I'll keep you updated on my results.

Frankly, with those numbers I'm not even motivated to work out at this time knowing that my levels are so low. My gains in the gym are virtually nonexistent no matter what I eat or what I do. What compelled me more than anything is that I have a family now and I don't want to be the dad that is glued to the couch. I do wish that that I took care of this years ago.

Best wishes to all.

Hello - can you share what your symptoms
are ? It sounds like you are looking at T replacement as a way of improving your overall feelings of health, rather than just for results in the gym, which is my situation as well. I have felt tired,
foggy, and sort of constantly hungover
for a long time now and just started Androgel. My #s were similar to yours.
I'm hoping for the energy and mood boost
that some people have reported.

best to all -



PV Wolf,

My symptoms are what you'd expect from someone with Low T: apathy, lethargy, not sleeping well, inability to concentrate (I like your "foggy" description). I call it a paralyzing funk.

I was actually diagnosed with clinical depression several years ago at which time my T levels were not quite as bad bad but the antidepressant route didn't work for me. In restrospect, I should have pursued the HRT route more aggressively.

I have been able to maintain muscle mass relatively well but my strength levels have been on a steady decline.
I'm 6 feet, 235 pounds at around 13 -15% bodyfat right now and have never used any gear. I know that TC has mentioned that he has noticed a trend among weightlifting types to have lower resting T levels (I believe I'm quoting him accurately). TC, how about an article on this topic if not already covered at some point?

You are right, my main goal in doing this is not physique enhancement but to hopefully alleviate the previously mentioned symptoms.

I'll report back soon and let you know how the Androgel is working. Keep me posted on your progress as well. I am very optimistic.

Regards,
gdm

Yes - I too was diagnosed as depressed. The AD meds just made me feel much worse so after trying many of the herbal remedies, I find myself hoping that low testosterone is the problem and Androgel
is the answer. I have been on 5g of the gel for 5 days and no noticeable change yet. I have always believed that if I could just start to feel better physically with a little more energy, the mood stuff would follow. I will keep you posted.

best to all-

PV Wolf wrote:
Yes - I too was diagnosed as depressed. The AD meds just made me feel much worse so after trying many of the herbal remedies, I find myself hoping that low testosterone is the problem and Androgel
is the answer. I have been on 5g of the gel for 5 days and no noticeable change yet. I have always believed that if I could just start to feel better physically with a little more energy, the mood stuff would follow. I will keep you posted.



did you get your t levels checked? what were they?