| Death Match: You vs. Your Body |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TMUSCLE
Moderator
Join date: May 1998
Location:
Posts: 9018
|
|
Death Match: You vs. Your Body
by Mike Roussell
10/22/09
It's a battle royale between you and your body: you want to lose fat while keeping your muscle, but your body has other plans.
|
|
| Report Post |
|
|
 |
|
|
tw0scoops2
Level 1
Join date: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 863
|
|
Is there any worry about rebound effects after a fat loss phase with 20-50 grams of carbs per day? Like when you start adding carbs back into your diet? |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
dmaddox
Level 3
Join date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 349
|
|
What is the difference between taking EAA or just L-Luecine, or would you combine the two say 5 grams of each in a pre workout shake? |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Akuma01
Level 3
Join date: Jul 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 238
|
|
dmaddox wrote:
What is the difference between taking EAA or just L-Luecine, or would you combine the two say 5 grams of each in a pre workout shake?
I believe it was stating that Luecine would be bare minimum, but supplementing more, Say in a capsule/shake that had many BCAAs, could be more efficient/safe in retaining muscle. Also, id say to supplement BCAAs throughout the day, not just pre workout. Actually i think that's one of the focuses behind the V-diet, too. |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
Faran Saberi
Level 0
Join date: Jul 2009
Location:
Posts: 23
|
|
tw0scoops2 wrote:
Is there any worry about rebound effects after a fat loss phase with 20-50 grams of carbs per day? Like when you start adding carbs back into your diet?
that "rebound" affect i think results from extremely low-caloric diets which tend to significantly reduce your metabolism. that sort of nutrition plan is also very hard to stay on.
this article is not saying you should restrict your intake significantly. in fact it's condoning a lot of protein calories. a high protein/high fat calorie diet isn't hard to maintain and it does not reduce your metabolism drastically, if not increasing it. |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
dmaddox
Level 3
Join date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 349
|
|
Akuma01 wrote:
dmaddox wrote:
What is the difference between taking EAA or just L-Luecine, or would you combine the two say 5 grams of each in a pre workout shake?
I believe it was stating that Luecine would be bare minimum, but supplementing more, Say in a capsule/shake that had many BCAAs, could be more efficient/safe in retaining muscle. Also, id say to supplement BCAAs throughout the day, not just pre workout. Actually i think that's one of the focuses behind the V-diet, too.
From what I understand BCAA and EAA are a little different. The study in the article was referring to EAA and the author talked about Luecine and BCAA. I already supplement with BCAA, but when the article talked about EAA I was thinking maybe working that in pre-workout would help. |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
Xab
Level 4
Join date: Apr 2009
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 664
|
|
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them? |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
Deadsion
Level 1
Join date: May 2007
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 285
|
|
Xab wrote:
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them?
You need to cut more carbs. I mean if you lost fat on 50g carbs/day and now your progress is halted, you probably need to cut down to like 30g carbs/day |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
matttchew
Level 4
Join date: May 2008
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 56
|
|
Akuma01 wrote:
dmaddox wrote:
What is the difference between taking EAA or just L-Luecine, or would you combine the two say 5 grams of each in a pre workout shake?
I believe it was stating that Luecine would be bare minimum, but supplementing more, Say in a capsule/shake that had many BCAAs, could be more efficient/safe in retaining muscle. Also, id say to supplement BCAAs throughout the day, not just pre workout. Actually i think that's one of the focuses behind the V-diet, too.
Do your Luecine with meals; increases activity anabolic activity of food via mTor pathway. You have to watch the claims of shakes with "BCAA's" in them-see whether they are free form or not; they're more readily available for anti-catabolic use when unbound.
Good article! Make sure you're getting plenty of healthy fats in there too or your test levels will drop, your energy will stagnate, and unfortunately a lot of times you'll end up getting these killer head-aches and mental fogs when a low-carb + high protein diet is used in absence of sufficient fat intake.
That might go without saying, but sometimes if we're not writing down calories and used to eating just for growth, when the switch to low carb happens, the focus on low carbs and high protein can be monopolized at the expense of proper lipid intake. This all assumes you're metabolically capable of handling a low carb diet.
Some guys do great with lower fat, moderate/cycled carbs and protein like Dorian Yates, while others to much better off with a keto-diet with close to equal calories from protein and fat. I personally feel freaking terrible eating much of anything that has any affect whatsoever on insulin!
Even my pwo shake doesn't have much carb content because the whey hydrolysate and bcaa's alone are enough to raise my insulin levels enough to make me feel crappy! I do use some dextrose with bcaa's during workout and some maltodextrin with whey pre-workout, but after that, if i touch carbs i feel like i'll slip into a coma! anyway...
|
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
matttchew
Level 4
Join date: May 2008
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 56
|
|
Xab wrote:
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them?
Re-load/re-feed!
|
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
ghostrajder
Level 0
Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 16
|
|
i'm in love with this site...my first virtual lover.but i love carbs too and 20-50 grams a day for me for fat loss is to low.and i process carbs very well.i eat meat but not much.i use whey and aminos and bcaa's.when i can afford it.
could it be that with visible genetic differences between us(height,eyecolour,haircomplexion of skin), there are also unvisible genetic differences and that they're primary in our gut ecosystem and neurochemistry of brain? for an example the amount of acid and digestive enzymes produced over the course of a day,predisposition to depression etc. i think yes.
i'm 36 and using betaine HCL.it's awesome.i think i'm aborbing nutrients better now.i was using also digestive enzymes and stopped farting which was cool.but again not so cool because i love to let pigeon or two out in long winter's evenings with my girlfriend while watching tv.especially when i'm not satisfied with her choice of channel. |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
Xab
Level 4
Join date: Apr 2009
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 664
|
|
Deadsion wrote:
Xab wrote:
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them?
You need to cut more carbs. I mean if you lost fat on 50g carbs/day and now your progress is halted, you probably need to cut down to like 30g carbs/day
You seriously think that 80kcal/day less will cause fat loss? |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
London Runner
Level 4
Join date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 1736
|
|
Xab wrote:
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them?
Take 2-4 weeks off. Eat at maintenance and then start again.
LR |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
JamesBrawn007
Level 0
Join date: Jan 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 385
|
|
I can testify to the effectiveness of this plan because it is very similar to John Berardi's Get Shredded system. I lost a shed load of fat over the summer on this protocol.
My only criticism is (and it would be great to hear Mike R's opinion on this) the possible fat to muscle pay off.
For example, after recently going back on a fat loss phase I have experimented with a targeted carb approach - as espoused by trainers like Thibaudeau - and the change in body comp has been much more remarkable.
On the ultra-low carb regimen I did experience some loss of strength and lean mass. Using the targeted carb approach my strength levels have been going up, my scale weight fluctuating by 1-2lbs (after 4 weeks), but importantly my body fat levels have been steadily diminishing, and my summer abs have re-appeared despite being 8-10lbs heavier than I was then.
In summary:
For dramatic fat loss at the expense of some lean mass/strength loss = low carb
For steady fat loss and lean mass/strength maintenance (perhaps gain) = targeted carb |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
Davinci.v2
Level 3
Join date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 584
|
|
Xab wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
Xab wrote:
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them?
You need to cut more carbs. I mean if you lost fat on 50g carbs/day and now your progress is halted, you probably need to cut down to like 30g carbs/day
You seriously think that 80kcal/day less will cause fat loss?
Sorry but don't listen to that, horrible advice. You're most likely stalling out your metabolism and either need to add in refeed days as mentioned or take a week or two to bring your calories back to maintenance if you've been dieting for a long stretch of time. |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
xilinx
Level 0
Join date: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 55
|
|
Really bad selection of second image. Can you even imagine publishing an image with the genders reversed?
Thought so.
|
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
bino
Level 4
Join date: Mar 2004
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 410
|
|
Xab wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
Xab wrote:
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them?
You need to cut more carbs. I mean if you lost fat on 50g carbs/day and now your progress is halted, you probably need to cut down to like 30g carbs/day
You seriously think that 80kcal/day less will cause fat loss?
It's not the calories, it's the hormonal response to the carbs. It's possible your sensitivity has increased to the point that a reduction will be necessary, but that wouldn't be the first place I'd look if you had success at 50g/day.
Other things to look for, in no particular order:
1. Make sure there aren't any other carbs sneaking into your diet; eg, dressings, sauces, etc.
2. Try a one meal or one day refeed per week if you haven't tried them in the past. Start with 200-300g/day and increase from there.
3. Try Peri-WO carbs instead of a refeed.
4. Look at total calories... they still count. Not as much as most people would claim, but you still need to have a reign on them.
5. Make sure you're not getting too much protein at the expence of fat. You should be getting more calories from fat than protein.
6. Try some extra cardio. |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
Efuchs7
Level 4
Join date: Jan 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 270
|
|
when we talk about carbs... do/can you eat as many veggies as you want... does this 20 to 50 mean like Surge postworkout and oatmeal on other mornings? Or does every carb get counted? |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
BulletproofTiger
Level 4
Join date: Feb 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1483
|
|
Xab wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
Xab wrote:
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them?
You need to cut more carbs. I mean if you lost fat on 50g carbs/day and now your progress is halted, you probably need to cut down to like 30g carbs/day
You seriously think that 80kcal/day less will cause fat loss?
If you're really at 50 grams of carbs, then I would slowly carb up adding about an extra 100 carbs per day (gradually!!! something like an extra 20 grams of carbs every 4 days or so) while simultaneously increasing your work volume, unless you have stalled because you are overtrained. If you don't workout for over 10 hours per week, add or increase the following types of exercise (add 2-3 additional sessions) like complexes, sprint sessions, high intensity interval training (in addition to regular heavy lifting). Also for your regular lifting, don't aim to make strength gains. Aim to get the same amount of work done in less time. |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
MetalGrasshopper
Level 4
Join date: Apr 2008
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 131
|
|
xilinx wrote:
Really bad selection of second image. Can you even imagine publishing an image with the genders reversed?
Thought so.
Meh...I'd hit it. |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
elusive
Level 4
Join date: Jul 2007
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2776
|
|
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Xab wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
Xab wrote:
So what do you recommend for guys that have been low-carb for a while and it's stopped working for them?
You need to cut more carbs. I mean if you lost fat on 50g carbs/day and now your progress is halted, you probably need to cut down to like 30g carbs/day
You seriously think that 80kcal/day less will cause fat loss?
Sorry but don't listen to that, horrible advice. You're most likely stalling out your metabolism and either need to add in refeed days as mentioned or take a week or two to bring your calories back to maintenance if you've been dieting for a long stretch of time.
x2 |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
ghost87
Level 1
Join date: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 263
|
|
How much Leucine is essential? I have Leucine and other BCAA in my whey protein (which I consume 3-4x) daily. Is supplementation beyond this critical? |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
vcjha
Level 0
Join date: Jun 2009
Location:
Posts: 255
|
|
Again with the low-carb approach? I thought CT said this wasn't good at all because your body needs carbs. sigh... |
|
| Report Post |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This thread is no longer open to replies. Click HERE to start a new topic.
|
Article Discussions
