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Hormonal Optimization Through Sleep
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hockechamp14
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 2256

Hormonal Optimization Through Sleep
by Dave Barr
08/24/06

good work on this, i've recently been reading through a bunch of the old articles that Lonnie Lowery and others had to do with sleep. I think the light thing is the one that always gets me, I even wear a sleep mask, but at the bottom is where some of the light and leak through because it doesn't fully get the bridge of my nose... time to try the t-shirt.

Dave, do you use ZMA? Can you share how you plan your dinner relative to absorbing the ZMA later and then wait 30-60 minutes before having a micellular casien drink. Do you set your alarm at night to have your drink?

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Kruiser
Level 4

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 1579

Nice article Dave. Any thoughts on Gamma Amino Buytric Acid (GABA) for deeper sleep. I've been using it on and off along with ZMA and it seems to increase my dreams and allow for more restful nights.

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Urban
Level 0

Join date: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 26

Some great tips. I'm approaching a time when sleep may be becoming more scarce and my workload more plentiful, so it's nice to get some tips on how to get the most restful sleep.

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squatdude
Level 3

Join date: Sep 2005
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 218

Great Barrticle. I am always glad to see one of yours when I log into T-Nation. I will use the pillow proping methods and midnight feedings to see if it helps.

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Miserere
Level 2

Join date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 3041

Nice one, Dave; I'm amazed at how you just churn out 4-star after 4-star article...

OK, just kidding (sorry, couldn't resist it).

Now seriously, I'm a big sleep lover; I can never get enough of the stuff. I worry that I'm probably not getting the best quality, though, and after reading Cressey's health warning: You must sleep on your back!, I'm even more worried as I find it impossible to get to sleep on my back. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, if I'm not cutting, exactly how bad is it to make the bedtime shake with 16oz of milk instead of water?

And finally, melatonin is it. I never travel across timezones without it, and I find that 1.5mg is enough to get me sleepy in 15-20mins. I can't recommend it enough to people who've tried all the other non-supplement remedies that you mention, but still aren't getting to sleep.

PS: I gave you 5 stars for this one.

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kerwyn
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 179

Nice Article Dave. I personally use a valerian root/GABA combo. Deep sleep..wake up feeling well rested.

My pre-bed meal..
2 whole organic eggs
250 mls egg whites
1/4 cup white kidney beans
2 beano
1 vitamin


or 2 scoops Metabolic Drive
6 fish oil pills

Works nice for me...


K.

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JKThreeEleven17
Level 2

Join date: Mar 2006
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 321

Awesome article, I was excited to read it just from the title. I love naps. I find that personally, setting my alarm for 25-35 minutes is best.

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SkyzykS
Level 3

Join date: Apr 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 4752

Nice one Dave. I was wondering though, is there much info on room temprature and how it affects sleep? I've noticed that when a room is too warm it is virtualy impossable to sleep, and my girl has complained a few times that I throw off heat like an oven.

I remember reading something about melatonin helping to reduce the body temprature a bit to help prepare for sleep. Is that tidbit correct?


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Matt McG
Level 5

Join date: Sep 2003
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2176

Good stuff Barr, I remember hearing about this in Syracuse. I think we also talked about the nighttime, pre-bed/pavlovian ritual back then.

Here's a little "Cool Tip of the Day" that I came up with a few weeks ago.

http://www.T-Nation.com/...c.do?id=1170999

Care to fund my research using pygmy hookers?

-MAtt

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hockechamp14
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 2256

Miserere wrote:
Nice one, Dave; I'm amazed at how you just churn out 4-star after 4-star article...

OK, just kidding (sorry, couldn't resist it).

Now seriously, I'm a big sleep lover; I can never get enough of the stuff. I worry that I'm probably not getting the best quality, though, and after reading Cressey's health warning: You must sleep on your back!, I'm even more worried as I find it impossible to get to sleep on my back. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, if I'm not cutting, exactly how bad is it to make the bedtime shake with 16oz of milk instead of water?

And finally, melatonin is it. I never travel across timezones without it, and I find that 1.5mg is enough to get me sleepy in 15-20mins. I can't recommend it enough to people who've tried all the other non-supplement remedies that you mention, but still aren't getting to sleep.

PS: I gave you 5 stars for this one.


I had a lot of trouble at first sleeping on my back, but make sure you have a pillow undernieth your knees. Also, I put two pillows end to end and lay my head on the "crack" in the pillows to have a slightly higher head position than my head being on the mattress (which always feels uneven and lumpy on my head)

Try it for at least twenty mins every night as you relax, and then if you have to roll to your side and fall asleep. I still don't sleep on my back every single night, and I've been working on it for a few months.

I think the odds are, at least one night eventually you'll be tired enough to fall asleep in any position.

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Dr. E. Nigma
Level 0

Join date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 1172

I started optimizing my hormones about halfway through the article. Thanks Dave.

General "****" Barr delivers again.

Kidding buddy, nice job!

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Cluster
Level 1

Join date: Oct 2005
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 196

Great article. Fans may not be the best for year-round use, but I made a pink noise CD (like white noise, but the amplitue of higher frequencies drops off so everything's nice and equal) that I occasionally use.

If anyone's really interested, I suppose I could email out mp3s which also help to drown out ambient noise at work (although the noise probably won't help at the gym). I find it's very helpful for masking tinnitus without having a fancy custom-made hearing aid.

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Miserere
Level 2

Join date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 3041

hockechamp14 wrote:
I had a lot of trouble at first sleeping on my back, but make sure you have a pillow undernieth your knees. Also, I put two pillows end to end and lay my head on the "crack" in the pillows to have a slightly higher head position than my head being on the mattress (which always feels uneven and lumpy on my head)

Try it for at least twenty mins every night as you relax, and then if you have to roll to your side and fall asleep. I still don't sleep on my back every single night, and I've been working on it for a few months.

I think the odds are, at least one night eventually you'll be tired enough to fall asleep in any position.


Thanks for that, hockechamp14. I have actually been trying to sleep on my back for many many years, but even when I'm really tired, I usually just won't fall asleep! But as soon as I turn over, ZONK! I'm dead asleep. It's uncanny... Sometimes I do manage it, but I invariably turn over during the night.

I even had issues with an ex-girlfriend, because she liked sleeping on my chest, but I just couldn't do it. What usually happened is that I would lie awake for 30 mins or so, waiting for her to be fully asleep, and then I would slide out from under her, turn over, and fall asleep myself.

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vroom
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2003
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 12284

After reading your article I had a nap. No, I'm not being insulting about the writing... just taking your advice.

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Lightrat
Level 3

Join date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 19

I have a question. Whenever I drink protein shakes before I go to bed I invariably wake up to pee in the middle of the night. Is this particularly bad for getting a good night's sleep? Do you have any suggestions or should I just not worry about it from a sleep standpoint?

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The Mage
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Location: Nebraska, USA
Posts: 2868

It's been known for years that light, especially natural, fluorescent, computer, and television light can interfere with sleep. Recently it was found that it was the blue portion of the fluorescent light that interferes with melatonin production.

I have found what are called black out strips, which are curtains specifically designed to block out light. Instead of using them like curtains, I have the top part thumb tacked over the window under the curtain, leaving the bottom free to pull to the side when I need to.

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The Mage
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Location: Nebraska, USA
Posts: 2868

Lightrat wrote:
I have a question. Whenever I drink protein shakes before I go to bed I invariably wake up to pee in the middle of the night. Is this particularly bad for getting a good night's sleep? Do you have any suggestions or should I just not worry about it from a sleep standpoint?


Use that time to take your mid sleep shake, or aminos.

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Kuz
Level 4

Join date: Jul 2004
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 3408

Some very good tips. I would throw in two thoughts:

1) Don't skimp on your mattress. If you're going to spend 8+ hours a night on that sucker, make it a good one and well-suited to your sleeping preferences. I went with a Tempur-pedic and have been thrilled.

2) I remember reading (wish I could remember where) that the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Denver actually went and darkened the walls of athletes rooms to help them sleep better. The more I thought about it, the more sense it made.

Even if your room is pretty dark, the white walls of most rooms would still reflect some amount of light. The Training Center found that once you went with dark walls, voila! An even darker room!

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stoic27
Level 0

Join date: Oct 2004
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 29

By having a constant sound that isn't too loud, other, more disturbing sounds are blocked out.

Living in the city I have used a fan for years, and I swear by it to get a good night's sleep. This tip really does work.

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V R
Level 2

Join date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1822

Kruiser wrote:
Nice article Dave. Any thoughts on Gamma Amino Buytric Acid (GABA) for deeper sleep. I've been using it on and off along with ZMA and it seems to increase my dreams and allow for more restful nights.


Its strange but I here from quite a few people that often have trouble falling and staying asleep while using ZMA....Any thoughts from anyone?

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florin
Level 4

Join date: Nov 2005
Location: California, USA
Posts: 635

T-Nation wrote:
Other common sleep remedies include valerian, St. John's Wort (SJW), and Kava Kava, although the latter may have toxicity issues, while SJW can have interactions with other medications.


Valerian root is a diuretic, so you'll wake up early in the morning because you have to pee. Perfect to ruin your sleep.

Kava-kava has no toxicity issues. There were a few cases when people had liver issues, but it was due to a particular batch in a particular product - their extraction procedure failed at some point and some nasty chemical was mixed in the final product. This can happen with any product, even fish oil for example. It was a fluke.

Kava-kava is consumed by natives in huge quantities (orders of magnitude larger than what's available in the extracts at Vitamin Shoppe) and nobody reported any issues because of that.

I normally use Kava-kava, although Melatonin works pretty well too. I prefer kava since it also elevates the mood.

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hockechamp14
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 2256

Nicholas F wrote:
Kruiser wrote:
Nice article Dave. Any thoughts on Gamma Amino Buytric Acid (GABA) for deeper sleep. I've been using it on and off along with ZMA and it seems to increase my dreams and allow for more restful nights.

Its strange but I here from quite a few people that often have trouble falling and staying asleep while using ZMA....Any thoughts from anyone?


That was only the first night for me, after that it was wonderful.

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V R
Level 2

Join date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1822

hockechamp14 wrote:
Nicholas F wrote:
Kruiser wrote:
Nice article Dave. Any thoughts on Gamma Amino Buytric Acid (GABA) for deeper sleep. I've been using it on and off along with ZMA and it seems to increase my dreams and allow for more restful nights.

Its strange but I here from quite a few people that often have trouble falling and staying asleep while using ZMA....Any thoughts from anyone?

That was only the first night for me, after that it was wonderful.


How long you been using it?

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Jujimufu
Level 3

Join date: May 2005
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 87

As part of The Anabolic Index Optimized Nutrition and Performance Manual...


The what..? Actually a better question is "Where" ??

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Ruggerlife
Level 4

Join date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 2650

Thanks for the tips Dave. And thanks for putting in #11 (naps), I felt bad for a moment when I fell asleep around tip #7 - no joke - I actually printed off the article just as I was leaving work and started to read it on the train ride home, although the article was interesting, tip #8 (the ritual) kicked in and my brain said train = nap!

I'm one of the fortunate ones who drops off into a nice deep sleep... I'm also unfortunate in that I don't get much sleep (four hours is plenty right? 6-7 on weekends).

I was surprised that you didn't mention mattress quality under the body of support (#3). What are your thoughts on the best mattresses, if I recall CW loves Temperpedic (sp?)?

As for the pitch black, an easier option for covering the windows is to go to a blinds store and pick up the ones that roll up at the top and are solid. We had them custom fitted so they overhang on the sides/top/bottom. If fitted properly, hardly a ray of light will enter whenever it's pulled down. plus women hate when you put bed sheets over the windows!

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