Testosterone Nation
SEARCH

Advanced | Members

HOME    T-NATION FORUMS    TMUSCLE STORE     LOG IN
TMUSCLE Store
Metabolic Drive

The Numerology of Muscle Building
Rating
1 2 | Next Last
 

TMUSCLE
Moderator

Join date: May 1998
Location:
Posts: 9019

The Numbers of Muscle Building
by Christian Thibaudeau
03/25/09

Bodybuilding is full of percentages, but you don't need to be a math geek to appreciate these numbers.

Report Post
 

JGerman
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 871

Me likey!

It is always good to have a refresher on this stuff.

Report Post
 

davidtower
Level 4

Join date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 244


Great idea for an article! Good stuff

Report Post
 

jackreape
Level 1

Join date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 1276

An awful lot of great info distilled into a nice package.

Great stuff.

Report Post
 

Testy1
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 1412

Love it!

Report Post
 

usctrojansfan
Level 3

Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 708

I really feel like I've learned a ton new information this week on here. Great work CT. Looking forward to part 2.

Report Post
 

Fezzik
Level 4

Join date: Dec 2006
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 278

It is great to hear your thoughts about sprinting speed. I read a book called Sports Speed (I am pretty sure) by George Dintiman a while back, and he had similar thoughts about resisted sprinting. He liked some forms, but he concluded that weighted insoles/ankle weights were horrible.

He was a big fan of overspeed training via highspeed treadmills and towing systems, and didn't really like downhill running very much. Have you ever used overspeed training with your clients? What are you thoughts coach?

Report Post
 

Checkmate
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 128

CT:

If I am recalling Charlie Francis' excellent book "Training for Speed" correctly, doesn't he place the "critical drop off" point for strength and speed at 6% or so? If I recall, strength coach Jay Schroeder (of ESPN fame from 2001 when he was shown strength training Adam Archuleta) uses 7% as the "critical drop off" figure. Out of curiosity, how did you arrive at the 10% figure?

Report Post
 

donpalmero
Level 0

Join date: May 2008
Location:
Posts: 416

Great article. Really liked the bit about deloads. It never occurred to me to keep the sets and intensity but just hit 40% of the reps. I'm going to have to try this next time.

Report Post
 

Taff85
Level 2

Join date: Sep 2007
Location: England
Posts: 27

Really great article, always stick ones like this in my favourites on my comp cos they cover so much stuff so clearly!!!

Was also interested in your views on overspeed training. Lately i've heard some ppl dead against it and i have to say i've never felt comfortable with it from an injury point of view, running downhill or being dragged on bungees by someone faster always makes me feel too out of control and hard on my joints! Whats your views coach?!?

Report Post
 

absolute3
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2008
Location: California, USA
Posts: 195

The articles here have been a bit lackluster for the past few weeks, but Thibs, you never cease to impress.

Thanks for another hugely informative article. I can't wait for part 2.

Report Post
 

pumped340
Level 0

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1242

"I personally like to use my waking heart rate as a way of deciding when to deload. After a few days of rest, take your resting heart rate upon waking."

what if you only have a few days of rest during a week off/deload? I workout 4x a week with 3 days of cardio and I'm sure many people don't have more than 1 day off during the week so would that matter?

Report Post
 

Checkmate
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 128

BTW,

I notice that the volume deload of 40% jibes well with what Zatsiorsky referred to as the "empirical rule of 60%". I have been using this concept quite a bit in my recent training programs, albeit with a different twist to it (synaptic facilitation and active recovery). I know that the WSB club makes use of this concept as part of their GPP training.

Here is one way in which I have been using it:

I do full body lifting 3x per week on M-W-F. So, I squat using varying intensities and set and rep schemes throughout the week. I compute what my total training volume is for the week for squats. Let's say, to keep things simple, that total is 10,000 lbs. (including all sets of 60% or more of my 1 RM). I then multiply that volume by .6 (i.e., 60%) which is 6,000 lbs. I then divide that between three days (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday), which ends up being 2,000 lbs. per day.

I then select a training weight that is between 60-80% of my 1 RM and divide that number into the volume for that day. So, let's say I want to work at 60% of my 1 RM and let's hypothetically say my 1 RM on squat is 400 lbs. 60% of that is 240 lbs. 2,000/240 = 8.3 reps, so I might do 2 sets of 4 at 240 or 3 sets of 3 at 240.

If I wanted to use 70%, it would be 2,000/280 it is approximately 7 reps total. So I might do 1 sets of 4 reps and one set of 3 reps. At 80%, it becomes 2,000/320 = ~6 reps, so I might do 2 sets of 3 reps.

That is how I use it within the week. However, I use it with respect to total weekly volume too following a peaking week. I do lower the intensity some, but still keep it relatively high (I might make the intensity 90% of the intensity I was using). So, a deloading week, assuming I would take the weight I was using on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and multiply each by 90%, but making sure the total volume decreases by 60%.

So, to take an example, let's say on Monday of the week I peek, I do 3x3 at 360 lbs. The total volume is 3,240. So, I know I want my total volume on Monday of the deload week to by 60% of that, which is 1,944. But I also want to lower my intensity a little bit, but still within striking distance of where I was before. So I use a weight that is 90% of 360, or approximately 325 lbs. Well, 1,944/325 = roughly 6 reps. So maybe I do 3 sets of 2 with 325 instead of 3 sets of 3 with 360.

Also note that the volume used in my T-Th-Sat workouts would have to go down as well by 60% (but there, I wouldn't lower the intensity at all, just the volume).

Anyway, I am sure there are a lot of ways to employ this concept, but I just thought I would share how I have been using it.

Report Post
 

Checkmate
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 128

donpalmero wrote:
Great article. Really liked the bit about deloads. It never occurred to me to keep the sets and intensity but just hit 40% of the reps. I'm going to have to try this next time.


Actually, the concept Thib is talking about is to hit 60% of the reps, not 40%. You are deloading by 40%. This is one application (although not the only one) of what Zatsiorksy referred to as the "Emprical Rule of 60%".

Report Post
 

Checkmate
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 128

Zatsiorsky on the Emprical Rule of 60% (from "Science and Practice of Strength Training" 1st ed.)

p. 120

"To avoid accommodation, training loads should vary from day to day and from microcycle to microcycle [NOTE: a microcycle is usually a week]. The emprical 'rule of 60%' has stood the test of time: The training volume of a day ([or] microcycle) with minimal loading should be around 60% of the volume of a maximal day ([or] microcycle) load."

p. 131

"The rule of 60% is recommended for use in planning a macrocycle [a period made up of several mesocycles, each mesocycle is made up of several microcycles]. The load in a mesocycle with minimal load is approximately 60% of a maximal mesocycle load, provided the mesocycles are equal in duration."

p. 201

"In the typical pattern of timing, the dominant methods are changed every mesocycle with the routine during the first mesocycle directed primarily at introducing muscular hypertrophy (mainly by the methods of submaximal and repeated effort). The training load is varied, usually according to the empirical '60% rule.'"

Report Post
 

Schlenkatank
Level 3

Join date: Mar 2008
Location: Vermont, USA
Posts: 507

Wow, as a speed athlete this article will really help my training methods e.g. all the information on speed training and plyometrics.

Thanks soooo much CT, I will definitely divert my attention away from heavy squats for awhile.

Report Post
 

dcb
Level 5

Join date: Feb 2003
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 354

CT,

Would you put sled dragging in the same boat as other types of resisted sprints? If you used the sled to do more of a power/acceleration workout (10-20 yards) would it still interupt the established motor patterns for running too much?

Report Post
 

Gymjunkie
Level 0

Join date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 737

Coach,

You say that when dieting down, that 50-60% of your total calories should be made up of your energy nutrient and 40% Protein. However, does this hold true when on a ketogenic diet as well?

I ask this, because in recent times your recommended numbers have been roughly the opposite...

EDIT: I just re-read the paragraph and took note that this reco is dependant on the type of diet.

IGNORE THIS POST

Thanks,

GJ

Report Post
 

SouthsideMayhem
Level 0

Join date: Jun 2008
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 64

Pithy and information dense as always, Thib. Great stuff!

I have 2 questions.

1) If deloads are properly incorporated, would there ever be a physical need for most folks to take a full 7-10 days off from all training?

Also, based upon the recommendations you made for assessing the need for deloads, I'm assuming that it's a somewhat misguided notion when some coaches give a stock recommendation to deload every 4th week or so?

2) If for some reason the body has adapted to using protein as the primary fuel source, will it take a significant amount of time to rectify that, or is it simply a matter of adding more energetic nutrients and allowing some time?

Once again, thanks for the knowledge.

Report Post
 

MangoFighter
Level 3

Join date: May 2008
Location: California, USA
Posts: 54

sick article coach Thib. i know this will be one of those articles that i keep coming back to to refresh my knowledge and training programs (not to mention diet). i personally liked the wave and plateau methods because i had heard those thrown around and never really understood the loading or overall concept. great stuff.

Report Post
 

captaincalvert
Level 0

Join date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 319

Great stuff! Thanks!

Reading about weighted sprints reminded me of how Lindford Christie used to run with a small parachute. Would creating drag that way be a better solution than adding a load to the body, or was that equally stupid in your opinion?

Report Post
 

Checkmate
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 128

captaincalvert wrote:
Great stuff! Thanks!

Reading about weighted sprints reminded me of how Lindford Christie used to run with a small parachute. Would creating drag that way be a better solution than adding a load to the body, or was that equally stupid in your opinion?


Thib actually addresses this in the article:

"A lot of people, and even (misinformed) coaches, recommend sprinting against a resistance by means of a weight vest, a speed chute, or weighted insoles. This is a bad idea. It generally leads to slower running speeds as the body "learns" to put more emphasis on strength and a bit less on speed during sprints."

Report Post
 

Checkmate
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 128

From reading a few of the comments above, I think that some people are getting a bit confused about what Thib wrote. My attempt to summarize is as follows:

Speed work should be done without any external loading.

Speed-Strength is best trained between 10-30%, peaking around 20%.

The low end for training power is around 40% of your 1RM, and power is peaked at around 50% of your 1RM.

If you are training for strength, cease your work sets when you reach a critical drop off of no greater than 10%.

If you are training for hypertrophy, cease your work sets when you reach a critical drop off of no greater than 20%.

There should be no more than a 10% difference between your lightest work set and your heaviest work set when training for strength.

A deloading week should have roughly 60% of the volume of a high volume week (i.e., a reduction in volume of 40%) with intensity remaining high.

Protein should be consumed at about 1.5 g/lb. which will roughly come to 40% of your daily intake of calories.

Fat should never be less than 20% of your daily intake of calories.

You are considered lean once you hit 10% body fat, and can handle more carbs once you hit this number.

I think that pretty much summarizes what Thib was saying.

Report Post
 

squat junky
Level 1

Join date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 42

Coach Thibaudeau,

I am a powerlifter and have recently incorporated one day of sprinting and jumping into my training a week. Previous to this, I had been pounding the primary lifts for years without much attention to speed work. So, I thought that doing more sprinting and jumping might be just what I need to boost my squat numbers and help balance things out a bit(plus I have since realized that I like to sprint).

I acquired a 56 inch chute off ebay for 20 bucks to the door, and have been using it a bit. After a solid dynamic warm-up, I usually do 3 or 4 normal 50 meter sprints, then 3 resisted ones, then some jumps.

I don't actually care about my sprinting time (I'm hardly the portrait of speed) and just want to get more powerful. So, is the chute a good thing, or should I ditch it?

Also, I dieted down for the first time in years this past summer and, in doing so, I did a lot of hill sprinting. I am planning to get back into them once the snow melts. Are hill sprints a better option than resisted sprints? Are resisted hill sprints a decent option, or just stupid? Again, I just want to get more powerful.

Thanks

Report Post
 

captaincalvert
Level 0

Join date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 319

Thib actually addresses this in the article:

"A lot of people, and even (misinformed) coaches, recommend sprinting against a resistance by means of a weight vest, a speed chute, or weighted insoles. This is a bad idea. It generally leads to slower running speeds as the body "learns" to put more emphasis on strength and a bit less on speed during sprints."


Sorry about that. "Speed chute" somehow escaped my attention.

Report Post
1 2 | Next Last
Topic is Locked
This thread is no longer open to replies. Click HERE to start a new topic.
Administrators Online: Mod Starr