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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

been reading the combat sport forum like for one and a half hour, and couldn't find anything really useful to me.

i've been lifting for 2 years, now i'm really interested on lowering my bf%.

i weight 260, 6'0" and i'm currently lifting 5 days a week, i'm alaso on a low carb diet.
Split looks like this

mon: ME DL, plus back work
tues: ME bench, plus tris, shoulder
wedn: legs (squat, romain dl, split squat)
thur: off
fri: DE bench, plus tris, shoulder
sat: legs (front squat, good mornings, splits)
sun: off

as you can see, the volume it's a little high, and i recently joined a boxing gym, and i really like it, but seems like i can't handle lifting and boxing 5 days a week, so what should i do?

will only lifting 3 times a week while boxing make the trick?, my goal is only to keep strength and lose fat (not gaining muscle, stregth and lose fat all at the same time)


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LjSimpson08
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Join date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 194

Ditch the low carb diet and actually eat some food, i.e form a calorie deficient. How are you lifting for 2 years and still asking questions like this, research before you post, and don't think that boxing or any other combat sport is the cureall for a shitty diet, if your fat before you worked out, your fat as you work out and think you can add more to lifting 4 days a week you need a reality check and realize your intensity is not in your workouts, your cardio is not sufficient, so adding three things that you do below margin will not help you lose weight.

Now with the flaming done go research

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LjSimpson08
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Join date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 194

tuchavito wrote:
been reading the combat sport forum like for one and a half hour, and couldn't find anything really useful to me.



Because most of the people who weight train and practice a martial discipline are already damn good at cutting and gaining wieght. Go ask in Beginners and or Nutrition.

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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

LjSimpson08 wrote:


Because most of the people who weight train and practice a martial discipline are already damn good at cutting and gaining weight. Go ask in Beginners and or Nutrition. Because your workout is bust as well, especially if your trying to cut weight.


thanks for the reply man, yes it sounds stupid to ask that after 2 years of training, if you want i can post my diet, i think it's not a shitty diet, cause i've already lost 10 punds in 3 weeks, and my question was about the volume of my training.






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LjSimpson08
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Join date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 194

Just Pm me or repost in one of those two forums.

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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

LjSimpson08 wrote:
think you can add more to lifting 4 days a week you need a reality check and realize your intensity is not in your workouts, your cardio is not sufficient, so adding three things that you do below margin will not help you lose weight.

Now with the flaming done go research


i'm supossed to overtrain after a month on this routine, so i'm putting some effort to my sessions, my question was, how should my lifting schedule look like if i want to start training boxing?.


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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

LjSimpson08 wrote:
Just Pm me or repost in one of those two forums.


ok, sorry man, reposting on the beginners forum.


so this thread is dead

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FightinIrish26
Level 0

Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 11048

tuchavito wrote:
LjSimpson08 wrote:
think you can add more to lifting 4 days a week you need a reality check and realize your intensity is not in your workouts, your cardio is not sufficient, so adding three things that you do below margin will not help you lose weight.

Now with the flaming done go research

i'm supossed to overtrain after a month on this routine, so i'm putting some effort to my sessions, my question was, how should my lifting schedule look like if i want to start training boxing?.




If you are training (seriously) in boxing, lift two days a week, full body sessions, and concentrate on skillwork and endurance.

Heavy splits like yours will burn you the fuck out.

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LjSimpson08
Level 0

Join date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 194

tuchavito wrote:
LjSimpson08 wrote:
think you can add more to lifting 4 days a week you need a reality check and realize your intensity is not in your workouts, your cardio is not sufficient, so adding three things that you do below margin will not help you lose weight.

Now with the flaming done go research

i'm supossed to overtrain after a month on this routine, so i'm putting some effort to my sessions, my question was, how should my lifting schedule look like if i want to start training boxing?.




Train boxing as a fighter, or train boxing as a way to lose weight ? Look, I was trying not to be a asshole before but your not getting it, your weight training program is botched, your diet is botched and you want to know how often you should train to box when there's articles on this already. You've been training for a while and your 1rm's suck for your weight so wouldn't that be a indication that its all botched ? Next, a bodybuilding program, which is what your using, can not and should never be done with with any boxing regime, not to mention your working out your legs 3 times a week and your shoulders/bench 2 times a week with a 48 hour window, which if you take into account the problem with legs it automatically means that your body is constantly in a state of being overtrained.

Now take into effect your low carb diet, which was never really made for a martial athlete because 99% of what we do eats up our glucose stores quicker than a fat kid in a candy store, and you have a Fubar approach. Go read on strength training (not bodybuilding), go read on nutrition (For anaerobic/aerobic athletes), and then come back in here and post "what should my workouts like if I wanna be a box". Not asking for us to school you in basic stuff.

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LjSimpson08
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Join date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 194

FightinIrish26 wrote:
tuchavito wrote:
LjSimpson08 wrote:
think you can add more to lifting 4 days a week you need a reality check and realize your intensity is not in your workouts, your cardio is not sufficient, so adding three things that you do below margin will not help you lose weight.

Now with the flaming done go research

i'm supossed to overtrain after a month on this routine, so i'm putting some effort to my sessions, my question was, how should my lifting schedule look like if i want to start training boxing?.




If you are training (seriously) in boxing, lift two days a week, full body sessions, and concentrate on skillwork and endurance.

Heavy splits like yours will burn you the fuck out.




He's trying to use boxing to burn weight though Irish, take into account his profile numbers and he's obviously doing something really backwards. At any rate, I was going to help you OP, but your blatant disregard for researching at least the basics and affinity for asking assnine questions has driven me away.

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FightinIrish26
Level 0

Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 11048

LjSimpson08 wrote:


He's trying to use boxing to burn weight though Irish, take into account his profile numbers and he's obviously doing something really backwards. At any rate, I was going to help you OP, but your blatant disregard for researching at least the basics and affinity for asking assnine questions has driven me away.


Oh I hear you. 6'0" and 260 after several years of training isn't good. And limiting carb intake while doing that much work isn't good either, especially when he's adding boxing into the mix.

I agree that he's lacking basic fundamentals that can be easily gained through using the damn "search" function.

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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

i hear you boys, and yes, i look like a troll ( don't wanna be it).

so i'll reformulate my post.

i want to train box seriously, but i'm fucking overwheight, so i should lose some fat first, the routine i posted was given to me, i was supposed to do that routine along with 5 days of cardio for a month, then switch to a 4 days split.

that was for background.

maybe i just didn't search enought, i'll keep researching, but any help it's really welcome.

and know that search function isn't the best

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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

FightinIrish26 wrote:
LjSimpson08 wrote:



Oh I hear you. 6'0" and 260 after several years of training isn't good. And limiting carb intake while doing that much work isn't good either, especially when he's adding boxing into the mix.



exactly!!, i don't want to just "add" boxing ti my routine, i want to build a routine around box, i just thought that i might need a different aproach, cause i'm trying to cut weight.

sorry dudes, not trying to be a pain in the ass



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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 11048

tuchavito wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
LjSimpson08 wrote:



Oh I hear you. 6'0" and 260 after several years of training isn't good. And limiting carb intake while doing that much work isn't good either, especially when he's adding boxing into the mix.



exactly!!, i don't want to just "add" boxing ti my routine, i want to build a routine around box, i just thought that i might need a different aproach, cause i'm trying to cut weight.

sorry dudes, not trying to be a pain in the ass



http://www.tmuscle.com/...tional_programs

This will give you a base of nutrition. Start taking fish oil, if you're not already, and look into pre-and post workout shakes. I tend to stick with a simple whey protein shake after my workout, but because I don't compete and I'm young recovery isn't a vital issue to me. This will change as I age, and there may be more supplements to look into.

Drink more green tea. Joe Calslappy swears by it, and even though I don't like him, the guy's a pro.

And if you really want to get into boxing, don't worry about being fat. Drop the split you've got going and go to two full body workouts a week, something in the fashion of Waterbury's Total Body Training. Heavy, compound movements where you get the most bang for your buck and get the fuck out of the gym.

Start running. Wake up every morning and run a couple miles. Nothing crazy- start off slow. But do your roadwork. And finally, go the damn boxing gym. Jump rope, shadowbox, hit the pads, the bag, the double end, and do it under the eyes of a trainer. Go four or five times a week and do your workouts.

If you combine this with good nutrition, you'll be amazed at the results you'll get.

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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

my apologies to all, i came here and wanted you to solve my problesm, that was the problem ;).

so i come with specific questions, just forget about everything i posted.

so my weight regimen should look like


WORKOUT 1
DE Lower Body
ME Upper Body
Posterior chain lower movement
DB press variation
Lat/Upper back superset
Abs

WORKOUT 2
ME Lower Body
Upper Body movement (chin-up or push-up variation)
lower body movement
Shrug variation super-setted with rear delt movement
Grip training
Weighted abdominals

and i'll be boxing 5 days a week (mon-fri), will pay a lot of attention on conditioning, and aerobic work.

the boxing classes are at 8:00 am, now i'll look for info about diet.

is this ok while i'm triying to cut weight??


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zephead4747
Level 0

Join date: Jul 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 5348

FightinIrish26 wrote:
LjSimpson08 wrote:


He's trying to use boxing to burn weight though Irish, take into account his profile numbers and he's obviously doing something really backwards. At any rate, I was going to help you OP, but your blatant disregard for researching at least the basics and affinity for asking assnine questions has driven me away.

Oh I hear you. 6'0" and 260 after several years of training isn't good. And limiting carb intake while doing that much work isn't good either, especially when he's adding boxing into the mix.

I agree that he's lacking basic fundamentals that can be easily gained through using the damn "search" function.


Irish, you seem to have a pretty good grasp on training for combat sports. Wouldn't a 3 way split be effective? Would you have a figher doing a lot of Db seated power cleans, face pulls, and other band/cable shoulder prehab stuff?


Just curious, I might join a club this summer, or the next.

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espenl
Level 0

Join date: Oct 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 87

Check out rossboxing.com as well.

I agree on FightingIrish being one of the most knowledgeable on this forum regarding combat sports.

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FightinIrish26
Level 0

Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 11048

tuchavito wrote:
my apologies to all, i came here and wanted you to solve my problesm, that was the problem ;).

so i come with specific questions, just forget about everything i posted.

so my weight regimen should look like


WORKOUT 1
DE Lower Body
ME Upper Body
Posterior chain lower movement
DB press variation
Lat/Upper back superset
Abs

WORKOUT 2
ME Lower Body
Upper Body movement (chin-up or push-up variation)
lower body movement
Shrug variation super-setted with rear delt movement
Grip training
Weighted abdominals

and i'll be boxing 5 days a week (mon-fri), will pay a lot of attention on conditioning, and aerobic work.

the boxing classes are at 8:00 am, now i'll look for info about diet.

is this ok while i'm triying to cut weight??




To be honest (and this is just my opinion, I am by no means any expert) I don't know that I would use the DE/ME format while boxing. You're going to be a lot of dynamic type movements (that you've never done before) in the training (like medicine ball shit, etc.)

On top of that, ME days take a lot out of you. I don't know if your program is properly constructed according to what powerlifters say to do- namely, mixing a DE lower body movement and an ME upper body movement on the same day. There are certainly way stronger, more experienced guys who can tell you that than me.

Read this. See if it makes any sense to you.
www.rosstraining.com/articles/strengthtraining.html

hell, read everything on ross's website. It has a good mix of old school attitudes mixed with newer training methods.


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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 11048

zephead4747 wrote:

Irish, you seem to have a pretty good grasp on training for combat sports. Wouldn't a 3 way split be effective? Would you have a figher doing a lot of Db seated power cleans, face pulls, and other band/cable shoulder prehab stuff?


Just curious, I might join a club this summer, or the next.


I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "three way split."

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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

FightinIrish26 wrote:



http://www.tmuscle.com/...tional_programs

This will give you a base of nutrition. Start taking fish oil, if you're not already, and look into pre-and post workout shakes. I tend to stick with a simple whey protein shake after my workout, but because I don't compete and I'm young recovery isn't a vital issue to me. This will change as I age, and there may be more supplements to look into.

Drink more green tea. Joe Calslappy swears by it, and even though I don't like him, the guy's a pro.

And if you really want to get into boxing, don't worry about being fat. Drop the split you've got going and go to two full body workouts a week, something in the fashion of Waterbury's Total Body Training. Heavy, compound movements where you get the most bang for your buck and get the fuck out of the gym.

Start running. Wake up every morning and run a couple miles. Nothing crazy- start off slow. But do your roadwork. And finally, go the damn boxing gym. Jump rope, shadowbox, hit the pads, the bag, the double end, and do it under the eyes of a trainer. Go four or five times a week and do your workouts.

If you combine this with good nutrition, you'll be amazed at the results you'll get.


sorry for the 3 repeated post.

and thanks irish, as you can see i'm a totally beginner, so i'll just shut up and listen and do my road work :).

thanks for the rossboxing page, very usefull.

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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 11048

zephead4747 wrote:
Would you have a figher doing a lot of Db seated power cleans, face pulls, and other band/cable shoulder prehab stuff?


Just curious, I might join a club this summer, or the next.


To address this part, yes, I would.

Your shoulders are really fucking important in boxing. Having a torn rotator cuff myself, I did pretty well until I was sparring. I seriously hurt the shoulder once, then popped it out the second time. It took a lot of rehab to get it back to where it was.

I do band work now to try and keep it as strong as I can. I also try to do some rear delt work in every lifting session, because the amount of strength you build in your front delts from punching thousands of times can quickly set you off balance.

Take care of your shoulders. One injury, and the motherfuckers just get weaker and weaker. I would definitely advise prehab work if possible.

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tuchavito
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Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

FightinIrish26 wrote:


I do band work now to try and keep it as strong as I can. I also try to do some rear delt work in every lifting session, because the amount of strength you build in your front delts from punching thousands of times can quickly set you off balance.



just curious, how do you train??, i'm not gonna copy your routine, just wanna have an idea.

the routine i posted basicly has me doing 1 or 2 heavy movements, plus accesory work (for power, not hypertrophy), so i'm thinking on a 3 day split, something around 3 big lifts and variations

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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 11048

tuchavito wrote:

just curious, how do you train??, i'm not gonna copy your routine, just wanna have an idea.

the routine i posted basicly has me doing 1 or 2 heavy movements, plus accesory work (for power, not hypertrophy), so i'm thinking on a 3 day split, something around 3 big lifts and variations



I've been all over the place with my own training. For about a year, I was doing MMA once a week (heavy bag, calisthenics, padwork, jumping rope, etc.) and taking a traditional martial art twice a week (Okinawan goju ryu). During this time, I could get one, maybe two days of lifting in. However, because I'm not a competitive fighter and have a career that I take pretty seriously, I couldn't spend a lot of time lifting. Not as much as I would like anyway.

Since September, I've been refocused on lifting a little bit. Generally I do three full body workouts, although there are periods when I did a "Westside for skinny bastards" type routine with a ME/rep upper body day and a ME/rep lower body day. I've also thrown Dan John's One Lift a Day in periodically because it's low volume but still raises my strength levels.

Now, however, I've got some more things at my disposal (a heavy bag and pads at my house) so I'm getting to the point where I'm lifting three times a week and doing skillwork twice a week. For instance, today I did three rounds on the pads, three rounds shadowboxing, three rounds jumping rope, and then a pushup/pullup complex at the end. I find this does wonders for my endurance, not to mention the skills themselves.

Keep in mind though, I am not competitive. I do roadwork once a week, because I box for enjoyment instead of actually training for a fight. If I was competing, or hoping to, I would be doing a lot more roadwork and a lot more sprinting. I would also be doing much more skillwork.

I am looking to join an MMA gym right now though, and at the very least get some BJJ/grappling under my belt. So my routine will probably change when that happens, and I may be back at the point where I'm lifting once or twice a week and doing skillwork four times a week.

Trying to balance this shit with a regular life is difficult, I tell you that. Hope that helped you out.

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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 11048

By the way, my body reacts terribly to high volume routines. I don't know why, but I handle a few whole body workouts way better than a lot of lifting. Otherwise I end up hurting myself somehow. Some folks are not like this, and can handle a lot more volume. For them, something different may be advisable. This is just my experience.

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tuchavito
Level 0

Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Mexico
Posts: 643

today i went to my boxing class, like 7:00 am, and asked the trainer about weight training.
he asked me what were my 3 primary goals, and i told him

1: learn to box
2: lower my bodyfat %
3: keep or even increase my strength.

so he told me not to train more than 3 timwes a week, i was amazed when he told me about the DL,BP and Squat.
he told me to devote one training to each lift, and do light accesory work, he told me that for now that was going to help me, that making my road work, eating clean and with all the accesory work, i will drop weight, so i came home and researched, and found 5/3/1, wich is the program i'll use.

what do you think guys?

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