Hi guys,

I'd like your input on my cycle design. I've done a bit of research, but not that much I have to admit. I'd like to keep it short and sweet, nothing too fancy. I'm looking at 5-10lbs lbs gain while retaining the most of my 7-8% bf if I can.

I'm running Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 training protocol, and I'm tempted to go with Get Shredded... but that would be heresy since I'd like to actually gain something... so I'll probably just Carb-Cycle and load a ton of cals pre-post workout and at breakfast.

I'm looking at a 3 wks cycle. I could do 4... no reason in specific... although it could be quite a few injections! lol...

I just want to heir on the safe side, like I said. I'd like to go slow and steady in the learning curve.

I've taken the basic outline from Cy's columns.

Stanozolol depot 90mg every other day
Boldenone 500 every week

Ending with 30X 50mg doses of Clomid to manage the Boldenone effects

Oh, and I've got quite a few freezer-kept bottles of MAG-10... but I'm not sure I should use them.

that's pretty simple, I know!
Inputs?

A 3 week cycle with boldenone makes no sense, if it is the usual undecylnate ester.

Too long acting.

lol, now I'm confused!!

Boldenone Undecylenate (Equipoise), on mesomorph.. it states that 400mg/week should be used to see noticeable gains... and the fact that the author has your name is reaaaally confusing me also! Could you elaborate a bit? I'm very curious

I could go with Deca, but the deca-dick jokes made me think I'm running too many dates to have that happen to me.. lol

I did not.

Or at least not written that way.

Checking what I did write back then, it reads "Boldenone appears to be comparable to nandrolone in its potency. It lacks nandrolone�¢??s advantage of being metabolically deactivated by 5a -reductase. It is only slightly estrogenic, and only after conversion to estrogen. I cannot at the moment comment on whether the effect it does produce is owed to strong binding at the AR or to effectiveness in promoting non-AR-mediated mechanisms for growth. I wouldn�¢??t expect much results with less than 400 mg/week. With that dose I would expect to see some noticeable but not dramatic results by the third week. Below 200 mg/week I would expect to see essentially nothing."

A pretty brief writeup, largely because I never wrote cycles for anyone with it unless they absolutely insisted and therefore had little practical data that I personally knew of on it. (These days I would also categorize it as a Class I due to stacking behavior reported by others.)

That certainly doesn't say that it "should" be used at all.

It does say that below 200 mg/week you shouldn't expect to see anything, with much less than 400 mg/week you shouldn't expect much results, whereas at 400 mg/week you ought to notice something by the third week.

That doesn't mean it is suitable for a 3 week cycle. Quite the contrary, it implies that you might well have to wait that long before noticing anything at all. That's not what someone wants from a 3 week cycle, to not even notice anything until near the end.

The writeup really should have included its very long duration of action, resulting in it being impossible to have much recovery for quite some time after the last injection. Thus making it unsuitable for 3 week cycles.

The standard injectables for very brief cycles are testosterone propionate, and/or trenbolone acetate, or (rarely) Primobolan. Winstrol can also be added but isn't a suitable base. OTS has a thread where he has experimented successfully with testosterone suspension in this application.

Masteron would I'm sure be fine too but I haven't relied on it that way yet and don't know anyone who has.

As you will be missing the exact 2 week point anyway, testosterone enanthate would also be fine.

If you don't want to use testosterone and don't want to use trenbolone, a really nice mild cycle would be Masteron with some HCG (for example 200 or 250 IU every other day.) The purpose of the HCG is to yield normal levels of testosterone during the cycle, largely for the reason of maintaining normal estrogen but also the testosterone is of course a plus in its own right.

If you wanted to use the Winstrol as well that would be fine.

I understand. I guess I'll have a lot more reading to do since I didn't take into account the delay that certain compound have in showing noticeable gains.

back to the drawing board.... I can't imagine myself running 6wks of Stanozolol at an injection every other day!

Otherwise I would've gone the Deca way, but I'm not to sure about the delays also, since the litterature mentions about the same frequency of injections and dosage.

Is a 3-4wk cycle completely off the mark? I'd like to stack something with my Stan....

rome wasn't built in a day... so back to the drawing board! : )

Why not?

I've injected it twice a day every day for 6 weeks. (As have many others.) While having other injections to do as well. Butch up! :)

There's nothing wrong with a cycle length such as that but it doesn't make sense to use the very longest acting things available. Deca is long acting and poor for recovery also. I also don't at all think there's a reason to use a nandrolone product unless specifically looking for an effect on one or more joints.

Several choices were mentioned above that would be suitable.

By the way, I'm referring to injecting intramuscularly with a 29 gauge half inch insulin needle. That is far, far more tolerable for frequent injections than whatever you likely have in mind.

I agree, in all honestly, I was needle-phobic a while ago, but now I don't really mind. Once you do it the first time, it's no biggy afterwards.

thanks for all the info!! I feel like a sponge, absorbing every bit of knowledge around me!

Actually I have to admit it wasn't till probably at least the 100th injection before I stopped having just a little anxiety each time. :)

Why not use the MAG-10? It fits the bill perfectly:

* You only want to gain 5-10lbs of lean mass
* You only want to use for 3-4 weeks
* You stated you have quite a few bottles
* You don't want to get fancy
* You're uneducated on the proper use of AAS

Why not use your MAG-10 stores until you are better prepared to use AAS?

Makes sense to me also.

And the same two cents shared by the majority of posters on this and most AAS forums..

Hi guys,

Yup, I think you are all right. If I put my thinking cap on, I can't argue.

I'm just saying, I'm 29, been training for 8+ yrs, got a solid diet, low bf%... if we put aside the knowledge factor, efficacy wise, aas and MAG-10 are yielding results, whichever one I take.

now, safety-wise, the beforementioned cycle is short, and relatively safe at the dosage I'm using. That's what it seems to me and from my reading.

not trying to justify, I know I don't have *all* the answers yet... and I certainly don't want to come across as the 17yr troll who want to be hyuuuuuuuge ; ) but I'm reading like a sponge these days and plan to continue reading at this rate for the following weeks.

I really feel I'm at this crossroad, I want to take it slow... so that's why I want to learn to swim while swimming in a shallow pool... not looking at swimming manuals all day long.

I appreciate all your comments. If you think doing a short 3-4 cycles on low doses of stan and t-prop is risky and for "advanced" users, please comment.

I'm here to add to my knowledge and can take criticism. The option to drop the cycle is always on the table, to be taken later on.

thanks for all the comments, I appreciated it! I owe it all to T-Nation for all these good years anyway ; )

4 weeks with Test P and anything are great. go for it.

Sure, that is fine.

Since any susceptibility you may have to developing gyno is unknown -- unless you have it already naturally, in which case it is high -- I would run letrozole or a SERM during the cycle, due to the testosterone use.

Been using MAG-10 and 1AD for a couple of cycles.... never had any problem nor sensitivities. And you can see from the avatar I do not have man tits : )

I'll have tamoxifen for post-cycle, I'll read up on letrozole after work

thanks a million

You should definitely have adex, Aromasin or letro on hand and preferably use it low dose while on any cycle using an aromatising compound like test prop, test of any ester, dbol, etc. Low dose would be 0.25mg adex EOD. Required dose to effectively maintain low normal male estradiol can vary widely between individuals as we each have unique sensitivity to both aromatisation and sensitivity to the AI drug itself.

For example adex dose for a 500mg/w test prop cycle used with winstrol could vary between 0.2mg eod to 0.5mg/d. I would start with 0.25mg EOD and go by "feel" from there. Libido is a good guide. When it is good, normally you are on target with AI dose. Too much or too little and libido will suffer. Nolva is for post cycle or a bad gyno flareup during cycle.

Neither MAG-10 nor 1-AD has any tendency whatsoever to cause or aggravate gyno. Thus, doing fine with them is no indicator for tolerance of substances that can be problems for gyno.

Thanks, I'll have Nolvadex on hand and will start using it at low doses.

For MAG-10 and 1AD, althought the andro is a -diol, and doesn't cause aromatization, I assumed it's like the Winstrol...doesn't aromatize, but it's still feasible to cause gyno.. although the possibility is very remote... and I going wrong with this?

It's like Winstrol in not causing or promoting gyno.

Thanks for the info Brook!

I'll use letrozole during the cycle, which is an AI. I changed and got some Clomid for after the cycle. I guess I'll have my bases covered.

From what I read I should be using the letrozole at .25-1mg per day
The clomid I'll use the standard 50mg dosage / day for 21 days at the end of the 4 weeks cycle.

So now I'll be setup with
50mg of stanozolol (100mg/ml) + 100mg T prop (175mg/ml) every two days.

Is there a problem injecting the two at the same time? I've looked at the syringes I've got and I'm not sure I can change the tip. dullness aside, is there any problem with using the same needle for 2 vials and 1 injection? I'm pretty squeaky clean and have had no problem so far with all my past injections.

I've got no idea what kind of gains I should expect.... nutrition wise, what leaway should I give myself. I've read every nutrition piece on the site and then some... but I'm not sure what rules change when on a cycle! I'm currently +10-15% above BMR and maintain the weight...

I appreciate any comments/suggestions

Hmm.. Winstrol is water based, and Test is oil. You know the infamous differences between these liquids ;)

That said, i am sure you can if you are careful. Do not push the plunger too hard, slow and steady.

Honestly? I would inject both daily - I have used 25mg of Win a day, and i have used 50mg of Win injected EOD and i really didn't see very much. I would never use it as a primary anabolic under 50mg injected a day.

If this isn't an option, shoot the 25mg daily at least.

The rules of nutrition that are different from natural to enhanced are:

You can eat more and utilise it. ie. 2-3g/lb protein rather than just 1g/lb.
You can eat a little 'looser' than when natty and get decent results.
You can eat less calories and keep muscle when dieting.

So as you can see when gaining you can actually eat what you need to gain - whereas when natty, you are restricted by growth so simply increasing calories will just make you fat.

If you bought all in one syringes, they are less flexible. most of us use 1 needle to draw (20-21G) and then replace it with a 25G to inject. That way you cause minimal trauma as you are always injecting with a super sharp needle. If you draw the winnie and then draw the test prop and then inject with the same needle, it will definitely be more painful and cause more trauma to the site. I am sure some do it, but it is far from ideal. You can re-use the drawing needle for a week or so. Just swab it with alcohol after removing it and put it back in its packaging until next draw. Eventually you want to change the drawing needle too, but this can save waste.